[Pants-of-dog]

Then what is my position?

[Godstud]

You should know what your position is. You've ranted about it constantly, saying that we should let children change their bodies because they feel like it, and some might commit suicide, even though they might do that, regardless. This is based on the false premise that this will prevent them from committing suicide. It's predicated on a lie.

You also think that men can be women and women can be men, despite reality. You think men masquerading as women should be allowed to invade women's spaces, like female sports and restrooms, just so these people can feel better about their feelings. You also think that children should be groomed into a ideology of gender identity, just so you can promote your false ideology of self-gratification.

My position is against such things. My position is that of a reasonable, rational, and logical human being. I recognize that telling yourself, and others, that you are something, does not make you that thing. You are under the false idea that this is true. It's delusional. It's immoral.

[ingliz]

I recognize that telling yourself and others that you are something does not make you that thing.

Why does that matter?

A lot of things we tell ourselves are untrue.

An example that comes immediately to mind is your thinking that you are a "reasonable, rational, and logical human being."

[Godstud]

@ingliz And yet I am not the one supporting an ideology full of perverts and pedophiles. You are.

Since I don't FEEL like I am, and I can objectively prove that I am rational and reasonable(unlike your ideology), I can assert that I am. That you follow an ideology of lies, really proves that you aren't.

You don't know what "true" is, and how it doesn't mean that it's factual. 'Your truth', is false.

[ingliz]

I am not the one supporting an ideology full of perverts and pedophiles.

Of course, you are.

Every ideology is "full of perverts and pedophiles" when 90% of kiddie-fiddlers are White men.

[Godstud]

@ingliz You're in that group of pedophile supporters, not me. I'm fighting against the people who would sexualize children, or groom them into a self-destructive ideology. You're the one batting for the pedos.

[ingliz]

I am fighting against...

No, you are fighting for the ruling class who would atomise oppression to secure their rule. 'Divide and rule' is the oldest trick in the book. Identity politics disrupts our ties with our neighbours and breaks us up into small units of hatred. Its focus on the individual and not their social relations atomises society. With no common ground on which to organise, it renders the ruled impotent.

[Fasces]

pedophile supporters

[Godstud]

@Fasces The gender identity ideology seeks to destigmatize pedophilia by calling the "minor attracted persons". What would you call that, if not support for pedophiles? They seek allies ANYWHERE, even amongst the most detestable in society.

[Fasces]

At best, and being much fairer to other's views than you are, some within the equal rights movements also additionally espouse some dumb views about people with pedophilic tendancies (and even they do not generally promote allowing sexual contact with children, even then - similar to the Christian attitude of loving the sinner (homosexual) but hating the sin (gay sex)).

They're two seperate issues.

You're using a minority of a minority of a minority to justify your position against a whole issue.

[Godstud]

@Fasces We are constantly told by the gender identity cult, that the minority is more important than the majority. The ideology of gender identity supports the de-stigmatization of pedophilia. It isn't a separate part. It's part and parcel to a cult who targets children for grooming and sexualization.

[Fasces]

K

[Pants-of-dog]

…… that we should let children change their bodies because they feel like it,

No, that is not my position.

My position is that we should let teens access gender affirming care if that is what is deemed best by medical professionals, and that this would go hand in hand with any applicable treatments for mental health.

and some might commit suicide,

Yes, it has been shown over again through scientific studies that access to gender affirming care significantly reduces suicidal ideation.

This is based on the false premise that this will prevent them from committing suicide.

No, it is based on scientific studies.

You also think that men can be women and women can be men, despite reality.

This is a vague and therefore meaningless summary of my position, and it does not actually communicate that you know ny position.

So, this corroborates the claim that you do not actually know my position.

You think men masquerading as women should be allowed to invade women's spaces,

No. I never mentioned anyone masquerading. This seems like you think I support deliberate deception. Since this is not my position, you are once again incorrect about what I believe.

like female sports

I think current policies are not based on science, and I support any sports association that has an argument supported by scientific studies as to why trans people have an unfair advantage.

Current policies also exclude cis women from participating in sports, and a disproportionate number of high level athletes affected by these policías are not white.

and restrooms,

The science shows that trans teens are actually less likely than cis teens to engage in sexual violence, and are more likely to be a victim of sexual violence.

So yes, allowing people to use the restroom that aligns with their gender identity reduces the risk of sexual assault.

just so these people can feel better about their feelings.

That us another benefit, but the stopping rape thing is more important.

You also think that children should be groomed into a ideology of gender identity,

You are misusing the word grooming here, and so this is obviously an incorrect summary of anyone’s position, since it is inherently incorrect.

Some kids are trans whether we teach then about it or not. Teachers and parents need to be aware of that and give these kids the opportunity to be themselves.

[Godstud]

My position is that we should let teens access gender affirming care if that is what is deemed best by medical professionals, and that this would go hand in hand with any applicable treatments for mental health.

No. They need therapy and not gender mutilating care, which you propose by making it medical when it's not. Therapy is living with reality. "Gender affirming care" is about feelings. That's got nothing to do with medicine.

Yes, it has been shown over again through scientific studies that access to gender affirming care significantly reduces suicidal ideation.

No, it is based on scientific studies.

False. The studies were not studies. They were biased and I have posted articles proving that bias. You know what reduces suicide ideation, too? Therapy! You don't need to take hormone blockers and change your genitalia to take it, either. You don't want to help children. You want them to join your cult.

So, this corroborates the claim that you do not actually know my position.

So you don't believe that you are a woman or man if you feel like one? You're going to get cancelled by your ideology if they find out about your anti-cult beliefs.

I think current policies are not based on science, and I support any sports association that has an argument supported by scientific studies as to why trans people have an unfair advantage.

The evidence is overwhelming. It's long established fact.

Current policies also exclude cis women from participating in sports, and a disproportionate number of high level athletes affected by these policías are not white.

Falsehoods. They are not "cis women" so please stop using that derogatory term, misogynist. There are women, and then there are Trans woman.

Racism has nothing to do with this, so stop trying to change the topic.

The science shows that trans teens are actually less likely than cis teens to engage in sexual violence, and are more likely to be a victim of sexual violence.

So you are against protecting them and others from violence?

That us another benefit, but the stopping rape thing is more important.

We have laws, in place, already. They don't stop bad people from doing bad things.

Some kids are trans whether we teach then about it or not. Teachers and parents need to be aware of that and give these kids the opportunity to be themselves.

False. It's taught. No child of 4 years of age has a clue what gender is unless an adult has taught them that. Even so, a child thinks they are many things, and that doesn't make it so. They can be themselves... without hormone blockers and surgeries. No one's saying you can't feel like you feel, but you shouldn't alter what you ARE simply out of feelings. There has to be a lot of thought and informed consent(adulthood) before you should do so. I argue that, but you want them to be child victims of your ideology.

Fuck off with your sanctimony and false moralizing. It's as much a lie as your ideology.

[Pants-of-dog]

1. The therapy trans kids require is not therapy that convinces then they are not trans. This conversion therapy during teenage years is associated with a higher risk of suicidal ideation in adulthood.

2. Medical science studies show that gender affirming care leads to better mental health results.

3. There was no article proving bias in these studies. An article by a biased and discredited doctor provided some questions and concerns, but no evidence of bias was shown.

4. The concept of sex as a binary is not useful to fully understand how people otter than transphobes see sex and gender identity. In order to achieve that understanding, sex must he seen as binomal and a spectrum.

5. Cis is not derogatory.

6. Being trans is not taught. There is absolutely no evidence for it, snd we do have evidence that the social contagion hypothesis is not true.

[Godstud]

1. I am talking about therapy that reinforces what they actually are, and not "converting" anything. You are making a different argument. Your ideology is the one doing the "converting".

2. The studies on gender affirming care are suspect, and not nearly enough research has been done, which is why some countries are backing off from it.

3. I provided it. I am sure you ignored it. The manner in which the studies were done, made it so that they supported a foregone conclusion.

4. Sex/gender is binary. You don't like that. Tough shit. It's reality. The 0.018% who don't fit, are the exception. They are abnormal, and anomalies. The other 99.8% of people is either MALE or FEMALE.

5. Cis is indeed a derogatory term. That you state otherwise only shows how clueless you are about the bigotry of your ideology. Cis is ideological language of your cult. No one but those in your cult uses it. It's like when you bigots use the derogatory name of TERF to refer to anyone who doesn't support your ideology, or criticizes it.

A woman is a woman. A man is a man. Those are their genders, as well as their sex.

[Pants-of-dog]

1. Therapy that tried to convince a kid that they are not trans is the type of therapy that has been shown to be harmful.

2. There is no empirical evidente that the studies are suspect.

3. I addressed the study previously mentioned and showed how it had no substantive criticism. I also showed how the author was no longer respected in the field.

4. Explaining why the binomal spectrum paradigm is not acceptable simply reinforces why the position of non-transphobes will always be a mystery to tra;sphones.

5. Cis is not derogatory. I say this as a cis person.

6. Being trans is not taught. Trans kids are not taught to be that way. They do not choose that.

[Godstud]

1. Therapy is there to teach people what they are, and not what your cult says that they are.

2. I already showed that there was errors in how the information was gathered and that the studies were flawed. You chose to ignore them even though I already posted it twice.

3. You studies fuck all. I will not take your word for it, as you believe in an ideology of lies, which calls into question your ability to discern facts from fiction.

4. blah blah blah. There are two genders. Male and Female.

5. Cis is derogatory. It's a word used by your cult to stigmatize normal men and woman.

6. Being Trans IS being taught by people in your ideology/cult. Prepubescent children do not have a clue what gender is unless some cultist teaches them it. YOU LIE. Your cult has made you into a liar.

Gender identity lessons, banned in some schools, are rising in others
In Florida and several others states, educators are restricted in teaching about gender identity, but elsewhere, teachers are embracing the topic as the number of transgender and gender nonbinary children rises.

Resources and lesson plans for those who want to teach about gender identity are becoming much more common. Seven states now require that curriculums include LGBTQ topics. The National Sex Education Standards, developed by experts and advocacy groups, name gender identity as one of seven essential topics, alongside puberty, consent, sexual orientation and other subjects. And the federal government recommends that schools include gender identity in their sex education programs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... r-lessons/

Science shows transgender education doesn’t belong in schools
School districts are embroiled in a battle over whether to teach children in grades K-3 about being transgender. Advocates recommend teachers read their young students “Introducing Teddy,” about a boy teddy bear who transitions to be a girl, calling it a “heart-warming story about being true to yourself.”

First, the science: A staggering 99%-plus of the population does not have the physical traits that cause someone to become transgender. People with gender dysphoria — a condition that causes extreme distress — deserve empathy and respect. But only a miniscule 0.6% of the adult population has it, says the UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute, an LGBTQ think tank.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/20/science-s ... n-schools/

[Pants-of-dog]

1. The discussion is not about what therapy ought to do, but what has been found to be harmful and what has been found to be helpful. Teaching trans kids that they are not trans has been found to be harmful. This is true no matter what people think the goals of therapy are.

2. If there is anything about the study or studies that was not touched on, anyone can point out that specific issue and we can look at it together.

3. Again, a refusal to understand the other side’s actual position about sex and gender makes it impossible to correctly criticize said position.

4. Cisgender or cis is problematic in certain ways. For intersex people who were fortunate enough to avoid “corrective” surgery, they are cis according to the definition, and yet they are also gender non-conforming, which should be the opposite of cis. Having said that, the word cis does not stigmatize anyone. In all my social interactions where the word has been used, the only problem that ever came up was that people had not heard the word before.

5. Lessons about gender identity are not the same as teaching kids to be trans. If you are taught about Tony Jaa, you do not become Thai or better at martial arts.

————

To be clear, this is the study that supposedly shows problems with gender affirming care and disproves all the other studies that support gender affirming care:

Current Concerns About Gender-Affirming Therapy in Adolescents

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 23-00358-x

Am I correct?

[ingliz]

@Godstud

‘Conversion therapy’ is an umbrella term to describe a multitude of practices and methods to change or suppress an individual’s sexuality or gender identity. Each involves attempts to pathologize and erase the identity of individuals. A wide range of practices have been reported, including corrective rape and sexual assault, imprisonment and kidnapping, physical abuse, electroconvulsive shock treatments, hormone treatments, aversion therapy, and exorcisms.

Gender-affirming therapy is a patient-centred and patient-led approach to supporting individuals who are experiencing gender dysphoria or other forms of gender questioning or who seek to transition socially, legally, and/or medically. Gender-affirming therapy starts from the premise that there is no predetermined expectation and that the patient has the autonomy to explore and know their own gender identity, to decide on how they wish to live their lives in accordance with their gender, and to request and seek treatment in line with their own stated needs.