[Rei Murasame]

When you describe Japan as an 'impure country', and compare it to the states in the Americas which actually are not ethno-states (and thus need to be re-formed), that is basically an attempt to de-legitimise the existence of the Japanese state, by implying that a 'Japanese people' does not exist.

Obviously if Akuma thinks that the Japanese state is legitimate, he would be offended by you telling him that 'Japan is impure', because that has certain implications when taken to its logical conclusion.

Also, that assertion contradicted everything else that has been said in this thread, since I thought that everyone has agreed that the underlying basis for the Japanese state is the existence of the Jomon ancestry, and that its ethnogenesis occurred at the time that Yayoi admixture was added and then it was left alone surrounded by water to coalesce into the 'pure' thing the exists today. Japan has not been subjected to ongoing and persistent gene flow from outside the islands into Japan.

To be honest, I am tired of constantly having these conversations, because it's been covered so many times already. People don't share my view of history, and it's not really important for me to convince the opposition to see it my way anyway, because at the end of the day it is 2014 now and no one has to listen to Europeans lecturing other population groups on whether they exist or not, or from what date they existed from.

[AFAIK]

IIRC, Akuma has described Rei as, "a bridge between two cultures" and considered her background and situation to be beneficial to cross cultural dialogue.

When I discussed immigration with Rei I pointed out to that threads troll (I believe it was Sithsabre) that we were discussing migration on a macro level and there was no reason to get hung up on individual cases or be totalitarian and seal off entire countries.

I expect you are familiar with this Noemon as you joined pofo in 2007.

PS- Several posts were made whilst I was writing this. It appears noemon isn't making a distinction between nation-states and individuals.

[Rei Murasame]

IIRC, Akuma has described Rei as, "a bridge between two cultures" and considered her background and situation to be beneficial to cross cultural dialogue.

Pretty much, It think he did indeed say that. It's just that people keep pretending that he never said it.

[noemon]

First of all I did not describe Japan as an impure country, and I do not believe that Japan has anything to do with the Americas like the US or Canada. "Japanese people" refers to an ethnic entity. American does not refer to an ethnic-entity, neither does Canadian.

The Japanese ethnic-entity has probably assimilated Koreans during some times or other little influences, this is not diminishing to the Japanese ethnic-community and nor has it altered its character in any meaningful sense, unless your argumentation provides a non-existant meaning to such a narrative.

Second, whether people here have agreed about Jomon or a 30,000 year ancestry is completely irrelevant to the facts. And do you know what are the facts, Rei?

The fact is that people can only claim historicity as far as they can remember in their own collective memory, and not as far as external modern scientific discoveries carbon-date a stone, or as far as other people's records write about a place.

Because if you do not remember beyond the point that you do, then that means it was not you who was there before the point that you can remember. This should be very obvious to you. If you lose your own collective memory, you cannot claim a previous collective memory that has been rediscovered by modern-science, because if it actually was your own you would not have forgotten it.

Pretty much, It think he did indeed say that. It's just that people keep pretending that he never said it.

First of all, I have not seen him write anything like that, but I have seen him write: "I find them disgusting", "I would never mix with someone else".

I am not pretending anything, it is you who is pretending that he did not say what I saw him say.

[Pants-of-dog]

When you describe Japan as an 'impure country', and compare it to the states in the Americas which actually are not ethno-states (and thus need to be re-formed), that is basically an attempt to de-legitimise the existence of the Japanese state, by implying that a 'Japanese people' does not exist.

I think you make the mistake of thinking that I share your idea that the legitimacy of a state has anything to do with the purity of the dominant ethnicity.

I don't.

I described it using those exact words because Akuma brought up the "purity" of the Japanese people.

So, since I do not start with the idea that the only legitimate states are those with a certain amount of ethnic purity, I am making no statements as to the legitimacy of Japan.

[noemon]

When I discussed immigration with Rei I pointed out to that threads troll (I believe it was Sithsabre) that we were discussing migration on a macro level and there was no reason to get hung up on individual cases or be totalitarian and seal off entire countries.

I expect you are familiar with this Noemon as you joined pofo in 2007.

I do not know what you are talking about.

PS- Several posts were made whilst I was writing this. It appears noemon isn't making a distinction between nation-states and individuals.

That is false, I understand very well the difference. It is Akuma who does not and and speaks about both cases. I have made a very clear distinction about the ethnic-community. And I have pointed out to Rei, Akuma's personal opinion on people like herself:

I'm not a mongrel. Japan never had large scale immigrants like others. We are pure and this is not inbreeding, its genetic clean since we are a large group. Beside that i find non japanese not attractive. I would see a mixed children not as my real child. Thats my personal opinion you can beat on it as much as you want, that wont change how i think about it.

Mongrel, mixed children..not my real children and so on. If Rei can live with his opinion on her, that is fine with me, but let us not pretend that it is not there.

The japanese society keeps track of ethnicity.

When is the first track record that Japanese society has at its disposal? 7th? 8th AD?, that is how old you are, and not a minute older.

[Akuma]

I think some here have some serious problems to understand what i said or think.

Yes, i would never want a child with anon japanese women. I simply find non japanese women not attractive. caucasian women look clumsy and sluggish for me. Black women do not interest me in any way. The only women i find attractive beside japanese ones are propably northern chinese and korean as well as some from the philippines. Thats a pretty close group and if i look at some groups who are further away, like thai, i don´t like them, because their proportions do not look right for me. That does not mean that i can´t fall into love with a caucasian women for example. I have caucasian girlfriends, but its weird. I lose interest in them within minutes. I see one, fall in love and think she is my big price. Then when it ended in bed you can count the seconds. Thats not the case when i have a girlfriend from Japan.

I judge Rei because her intellectual capabilities and intelligence, not about her genome. That said i wonder where you get the conclusion that i would find her disgusting, simply because she would not be my preferred sexual partner. I give you a hint, its not all about sexuality. I can respect people without thinking about having sex with them.

[noemon]

The existence of Rei simply proves your racist views as wrong and nothing more. You simply use your racism or lack thereof depending on the situation. You would not have this problem if you were more educated, less arrogant and less ignorant on the subject matter that you are talking about. You should seriously consider as to whether it is your racist views that create problems with non-japanese women forcing your mind against them or not.

[AFAIK]

I do not know what you are talking about.

The discussion took place after I joined and before Sithsabre was banned. I'd approximate around 1 year ago.I also got the impression that Rei had discussed the issue several times before so I'm surprised that you are not more familiar with her position.

PS- Several posts were made whilst I was writing this. It appears noemon isn't making a distinction between nation-states and individuals.

That is false, I understand very well the difference. It is Akuma who does not and and speaks about both cases. I have made a very clear distinction about the ethnic-community. And I have pointed out to Rei, Akuma's personal opinion on people like herself:

I meant in terms of ethnic make-up. Mixed race individuals are fine but mass migration is not.

Mongrel, mixed children..not my real children and so on. If Rei can live with his opinion on her, that is fine with me, but let us not pretend that it is not there.

Akuma was talking about himself in that quote. He didn't express an opinion on Rei there.

Perhaps Akuma will return to clarify his position or maybe he finds it amusing to watch the rest of us analyse his words. Either way it would be good to hear from him again.

EDIT- Good to hear from you again Akuma.

[noemon]

The discussion took place after I joined and before Sithsabre was banned. I'd approximate around 1 year ago.I also got the impression that Rei had discussed the issue several times before so I'm surprised that you are not more familiar with her position.

Your assumption that people are reading all yours or Rei's written word is misplaced. Or for that matter that there is some conclusion that is relevant to what I said.

Akuma was talking about himself in that quote. He didn't express an opinion on Rei there.

Perhaps Akuma will return to clarify his position or maybe he finds it amusing to watch the rest of us analyse his words. Either way it would be good to hear from him again.

He was talking about his opinion on mixed race individuals, which he considers mongrels, and something so low that he would never do to his own children. This much is crystal clear. I do not understand why you or Rei would defend or even tolerate such blatant racism. As I said the very existence of Rei proves him wrong, for mixed race individuals can be just as nationalistic and parts of the community as any pure breed and hence the video from Kill Bill. Maybe after some time he will even come to understand how wrong he has been, his previous post points to the direction that there might still be hope for him.

[Akuma]

The existence of Rei simply proves your racist views as wrong and nothing more. You simply use your racism or lack thereof depending on the situation. You would not have this problem if you were more educated, less arrogant and less ignorant on the subject matter that you are talking about. You should seriously consider as to whether it is your racist views that create problems with non-japanese women forcing your mind against them or not.

What? You think i'm not educated? I doubt that. how does the existence of Rei prove me wrong?

[noemon]

That said i wonder where you get the conclusion that i would find her disgusting, simply because she would not be my preferred sexual partner. I give you a hint, its not all about sexuality. I can respect people without thinking about having sex with them.

Calling people mongrels does not show much respect for them. But the fact that what you consider mongrel can earn your respect proves your mongrel views wrong.

[AFAIK]

Noemon, you entered this thread by posting a silly video clip, which gave the impression you were trolling. I don't assume that you read everything posted on this forum but I felt like pointing out that if you were genuinely interested in Rei's opinion you would have encountered it at some point. You have had several opportunities to do so over the years.

He was talking about his opinion on mixed race individuals, which he considers mongrels, and something so low that he would never do to his own children. This much is crystal clear.

I don't find black women sexually attractive and wouldn't like to have black children. Does this make me racist or is it an acceptable part of my sexuality? Akuma's choice of words is often poor and he is very aggressive when expressing himself. I have learned to give him the benefit of the doubt since he first joined.

The problem i have is that my english is flawed. I admit it. I can´t understand nuances. I use relative simple english. Because of that my sentences seem very strict, cold and free of emotions. Some things can be misunderstood then, simply because it is often very direct and strict. I would like to discuss that in a nice way and hope that noone uses that as attack against me. Because to be honest i don´t know how i can improve that.
viewtopic.php?f=102&t=152661

[Akuma]

mongrel means for me someone with mixed heritage. The other word i know is bastard but that sounds much harsh for me. so i chose mongrel.

[Rei Murasame]

Well, whoever told you to use that word, should not have told you to use it, Akuma. Let me give an example, let's take someone like Meisa Kuroki. Newspapers would describe her with perhaps all kinds of terms, maybe 'mixed heritage', or 'mixed ancestry', or some kind of hyphenated ethnic term, but they'd never use the word 'mongrel' because that carries extremely negative connotations and if they were to use it her agents would ask such a newspaper to retract the comment immediately.

White people often say the word 'mongrel' with a lighthearted tone of voice, but it actually is an extremely negative word so you shouldn't copy it.

[noemon]

Noemon, you entered this thread by posting a silly video clip, which gave the impression you were trolling. I don't assume that you read everything posted on this forum but I felt like pointing out that if you were genuinely interested in Rei's opinion you would have encountered it at some point. You have had several opportunities to do so over the years.

No I was not trolling at all and this thread is a lot more silly with ridiculous claims like 30,000 year-long ancestry and characterization like mongrel people than my video which was perfectly suited.

I do not see your point still about Rei's opinion on something.

I have learned to give him the benefit of the doubt since he first joined.

Instead of asking for my pity towards him, you would be better suited in instructing him or correcting him when he speaks about mongrels or other nations being pitiful. He will not get a blank cheque for being condescending to various people and nations just because he claims his english is not good enough.

mongrel means for me someone with mixed heritage. The other word i know is bastard but that sounds much harsh for me. so i chose mongrel.

Listen, you do not fool me with your excuses, you have been given the benefit of the doubt by the old guard in here for far too long. Next time I catch you shitting all over the forum pissing on other nations, I will show again you how puny you are. Speak about you country as much and as great as you like, I will be your friend, piss on other nations and you will pay for it.

And just for your info, there is a fine term called mixed-ancestry, mixed-descent and so on.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I agree with noemon. The time when it made sense to give Akuma the benefit of the doubt is long gone. I'm actually not sure how anybody could still be under any illusion over this.

[AFAIK]

Instead of asking for my pity towards him, you would be better suited in instructing him or correcting him when he speaks about mongrels or other nations being pitiful. He will not get a blank cheque for being condescending to various people and nations just because he claims his english is not good enough.

You should report racist posts in the basement rather than expect people to read between the lines of a Kill Bill clip posted without any context. It's impressive that you posted the video before Akuma used the term mongrel and expect me to correct him pre-emptively.

[ThirdTerm]

HKT48's Murashige Anna is half Russian/half Japanese

Japanese society is rapidly becoming multicultural in the last few decades and it's more acceptable to be multiracial in Japan. One in ten marriages in Tokyo are interracial nowadays and being biracial is very advantageous in the entertainment business as mixed-race children generally look much better than the indigenous Japanese population. The OP has not demonstrated his proficiency in the Japanese language yet and it's doubtful if he's actually a person of Japanese descent.

The rise of cute “half” girls’ exposure is partly because there are more mixed-race kids in Japan than there used to be. According to this “List of Statistical Surveys conducted by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare”, the number of international marriages in Japan (Japanese with non-Japanese) in the 70’s was just 5,500, but it rapidly increased in the 80’s when the Japanese economy started bubbling up. Although it peaked in 2006 (nearly 45,000 couples), there were still 23,657 international marriages last year which is over 4 times that of the 70’s.
http://www.tofugu.com/2014/04/02/i-think-im-turning-half-i-really-think-so/

あなたはいつも私を侮辱。ウィキペディアはあなたの口です。あなた自身の知性を使用してください。一人で私を残してください。さよなら。

This sentence sounds like broken Japanese written by a non-Japanese person and machine translation does not work well on the Japanese language or "Nihongo" due to its complexity. "Leave me alone" should be accurately translated as "Watashi Ni Kamawanaide". Perhaps he is a Korean or Chinese person who sees the Japanese collectively as the Devil or "Akuma" in Japanese.

[Rei Murasame]

HKT48's Murashige Anna is half Russian/half Japanese

It is very much represented in the entertainment and fashion industry, for certain. Some others that have been massively in the idol scene and went unquestioned have been:

Oku Manami:

Japanese-Italian.

Kinoshita Yukiko:

Japanese-Spanish.

Akimoto Sayaka:

Japanese-Filipino.

There are others too, but I won't give an exhaustive list, those are just the ones I remember off hand that I noticed from the AKS groups. They look fine, of course I fully support them.

being biracial is very advantageous in the entertainment business as mixed-race children generally look much better than the indigenous Japanese population.

This is where I disagree with you strongly. I can't endorse that kind of statement, because I don't think that full-Japanese people 'look worse' or that they can be 'improved' by more and more European admixture. You have to be careful not to swing the pendulum too far in the opposite direction while trying to counter discrimination, because otherwise you would just end up vectoring a white imperialist narrative without realising it.

After all, where would that narrative end? You'd end up with a beauty standard which is entirely European. For instance, I mentioned Meisa Kuroki (Japanese-Panamanian) earlier, so I will bring her up again:



Surely there is nothing wrong with her.

Telling people that 'whiter' is better, leads to weird conversations like 'what is an acceptable whiteness level'. Maybe none of these people are 'white' enough? Surely she looks quite good as she is, but if the beauty standard were to become 'whiter is better', then she'd still be 'flawed' until such a time as she - and the others - find a way to appear 100% European rather than ~50%. Which would be crazy.

I'd like to think that the Japanese people would never have to endure such an identity crisis, Japanese features are not a 'flaw' to be corrected. And so Akuma's comments should be viewed in that light, he is putting out 'the antibodies' to a problem that hasn't manifested yet (and hopefully never will manifested), and we can ask whether he is too early with his message or too aggressive with it, but he is not wrong to say that Japanese people should be happy as themselves.

If I were to give a message to all these Japanese women - and really any Asian women - who are feeling envious or something and who wish that they were halfies or that they could have halfie children, I would say "Seriously, for real? What a Faustian pact that is. It makes life easier in various ways, but it also makes life much more difficult in others. Every dazzling light casts a shadow, you can't get something without giving up on something else. Making international children is not a cute game, and it is not easy."

I would also add at the end, "PS: Almost everything about the 'Asian' appearance is a collection of dominant traits, and the rest is a dice roll on recombination. So the child will look blatantly 'Asian' anyway and will never ever look 'white', and white people will never call your child white, and your child will not identify as white. So yeah."

That would be my message to them. They need to be serious about it and not just be like, "Oh, that's cute, let me do that too!"