[late]

Yes

It's liberals, it's science, this thread started out saying it's profit, but the idiots started this saying it's China.

It's none of the above..

Vaccines have been around for a long time, George Washington had his soldiers vaccinated. I grew up with my grandparents, and they were born turn of the century, around 1900...

They'd have friends over and talk about friends that had died. Some died from diseases you never even heard of. We beat them. Others died from diseases we can now fight.

In college, the first real history class is the one where they teach you the basics of doing history. One of the assignments is the church records of a small town in England. I thought it was going to be boring.

It wasn't.

Diseases would sweep through the town, some would kill all, or nearly all, the children. Others would kill half the adults. You follow that for a few centuries and a pattern emerges.

The message was simple, you are incredibly lucky, you are just too dumb to know it.

[skinster]

Nobody is talking about actual vaccines.

Those of us who are critical are clearly critical about the experimental mRNA vaccines. Don't get it twisted.

This is an interesting discussion on Covid in China.

[QatzelOk]

Yes we have so many things to be grateful for the Liberals that were based on science. Thalidomide, lead in petrol, asbestos. To be fair on the last point it was modern science that discovered the toxicity of asbestos, from which point we've been rushing to get rid of it. Its remarkable that it is barely five quarters of century since its toxicity was discovered. Obviously you can't expect the products from such a profitable industry to disappear over night.

When DDT was introduced in the 1940s - and before it was adequately tested - it was promoted as "science" in documentary films like the one below. Some of these films were shown in elementary schools to get the kids onboard with "their new world."

In the first five minutes of this video, you can see well-meaning housewives putting DDT everywhere in their homes.

***

...Vaccines have been around for a long time, George Washington had his soldiers vaccinated. I grew up with my grandparents, and they were born turn of the century, around 1900...

They'd have friends over and talk about friends that had died. Some died from diseases you never even heard of. We beat them. Others died from diseases we can now fight...

late, it would have been nice to have had you around in the 1700s so you could have explained how "blankets have been keeping us warm for centuries" to the First Nations. I'm sure you could have convinced them to accept this "gift" from the people who conspired to kill them off with smallpox.

Of course, things are different now because everyone's nice. Especially our political classes.

[late]

Of course, things are different now because everyone's nice. Especially our political classes.

[late]

Nobody is talking about actual vaccines.

Those of us who are critical are clearly critical about the experimental mRNA vaccines. Don't get it twisted.

mRNA vaccines are vaccines...

Docs have been lusting for mRNA vaccines for 20 or 30 years. Not hard to understand why, it's faster. In the case of something like the flu, speed is everything, because the bug mutates so fast.

You guys are weekend warriors pretending you can play with the pros. It's kinda funny put that way.

[wat0n]

mRNA vaccines are actual vaccines, and will likely become a standard option.

[skinster]

mRNA vaccines are vaccines...

Docs have been lusting for mRNA vaccines for 20 or 30 years.

Nope. The covid mRNA vaccines are new and are yet to be fully tested. They are still in the experimental stage. Vaccines normally take between 5 and 10 years to be fully tested.

You guys are weekend warriors pretending you can play with the pros. It's kinda funny put that way.

If you consider yourself the "pros" here....

[wat0n]

mRNA vaccines had already been used before the pandemic, just to set the record straight. They weren't standard, because there had been no need to make them so.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-l ... a-vaccines

[late]

Nope. The covid mRNA vaccines are new and are yet to be fully tested. They are still in the experimental stage. Vaccines normally take between 5 and 10 years to be fully tested.



If you consider yourself the "pros" here....

You are trying to use descriptive language in a prescriptive manner. You don't get to make that determination.

They work.

Medicine is not a hard science, close is often close enough..

This isn't my opinion, it's the opinion of the actual experts.

[skinster]

blah blah blah

No, it is your opinion until you can prove otherwise. But I know you're not up to that, if your past posting style is anything to go by..

[late]

No, it is your opinion until you can prove otherwise. But I know you're not up to that, if your past posting style is anything to go by..

Now that is why I come here; it's always good for a laugh.

[skinster]

Hope you got your boosters!

[QatzelOk]

...Medicine is not a hard science, close is often close enough..

This isn't my opinion, it's the opinion of the actual experts...

You mean experts like the Sackler family, pushing drugs on Americans to the point of making lifespans decline?

Yeah, imagine if the Sackler's (or a reasonable facimile) controlled media and governance... We would all be on oxycontin by now because "it works." (at making the Sackers rich)

[wat0n]

Speaking of boosters, my PCP told me that COVID vaccination is becoming more like flu, i.e. one you're advised to take every year.

[late]

Speaking of boosters, my PCP told me that COVID vaccination is becoming more like flu, i.e. one you're advised to take every year.

Yup, it's a done deal.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, new vaccines are being developed using mRNA, including one for cancer.

It's a new world.

[wat0n]

It's not that new, mRNA vaccines have been used since 2013. The tech wasn't experimental during COVID, even if still new (10 years is still fairly recent all things considered).

[late]

It's not that new, mRNA vaccines have been used since 2013. The tech wasn't experimental during COVID, even if still new (10 years is still fairly recent all things considered).

It's still new tech, what can be done with it is still being explored.

And it was developed and utilised at breakneck speed, but it's way past time to relax the sphincters...

[skinster]

It's not that new, mRNA vaccines have been used since 2013. The tech wasn't experimental during COVID, even if still new (10 years is still fairly recent all things considered).

Source?

[wat0n]

Source?

THERE’S A BIG GAP BETWEEN WHEN THE FIRST MRNA FLU VACCINE WAS TESTED IN MICE IN THE 1990S AND WHEN THE FIRST MRNA VACCINES FOR RABIES WERE TESTED IN HUMANS IN 2013. WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE INTERIM?

The early years of mRNA research were marked by a lot of enthusiasm for the technology but some difficult technical challenges that took a great deal of innovation to overcome.

The biggest challenge was that mRNA would be taken up by the body and quickly degraded before it could “deliver” its message—the RNA transcript—and be read into proteins in the cells.

The solution to this problem came from advances in nanotechnology: the development of fatty droplets (lipid nanoparticles) that wrapped the mRNA like a bubble, which allowed entry into the cells. Once inside the cell, the mRNA message could be translated into proteins, like the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, and the immune system would then be primed to recognize the foreign protein.

SO, WHAT HAPPENED ONCE THEY FIGURED OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY?

The first mRNA vaccines using these fatty envelopes were developed against the deadly Ebola virus, but since that virus is only found in a limited number of African countries, it had no commercial development in the U.S.

[skinster]

That article said the covid mRNA vaccine came into effect in 2020.

As yet, it's still in the experimental stage according to how long it takes vaccines to be fully tested.