[Beren]

It takes a whole lot of ideological acrobatics and boot licking to come to the conclusion that Trump "helps workers" in the face of these facts.

He's a Trumper not because Trump helps workers, he even admitted he doesn't.

[skinster]

Normally that's true and I could care less which party is in power, but this time around that just doesn't hold.

I think this time around you've succumbed to the theatre.

Biden will launch an all out assault on speech and other freedoms immediately upon taking office and that's never been an issue before.

Trump is currently in the process of aggressively and entirely illegally prosecuting a journalist for publishing. Even that asshole Obama didn't go this far with Assange, understanding charging him would set a precedent against your first amendment.

And Trump is one man wrecking crew, he has said and done shit as POTUS that I still can hardly believe came from a POTUS.

Yes, it's clear you've fallen for the act.

Just a couple weeks ago he just bluntly stated on live tv that the pentagon brass hates him because they love the profits from endless war and he doesn't do endless war. Presidents just don't say shit like that.

Yet the military budgets continue to pass and weapons continue to be sold. Wars are ongoing too. But hey, he said some stuff so...

My guess is you just really don't know shit about American politics, you don't understand that the shit Trump says and does is like way, way beyond the bounds of POTUS norms.

My understanding of politics is not based on what people like the sometimes actor Trump say, but what they do.

I'm honestly a little surprised he hasn't been assassinated yet.

If he was genuinely anti-establishment this would've happened already.

[Rancid]

I just realized I wrote "whorehouse" instead of "whitehouse" in my previous post.

[Beren]

I just realized I wrote "whorehouse" instead of "whitehouse" in my previous post.

I like your Freudian slip. However, Melania Trump lives there too, although I wonder if she has stricter ethics than her husband does.

[skinster]

Why would you wonder that when she's married to Trump?

[Unthinking Majority]

Source

Yet some will still look at this and somehow manage to claim Trump is doing great things for working people.

I don't think there's very much that can be done with incomes. We've seen big rises in markets and corporate profits the last 50 years, and as we know, profits go to shareholders, not employees.

What can be done is to increase income taxes on the rich, and get rid of offshore tax havens to prevent tax avoidance. That way these profits by the rich can pay to subsidize things like education, affordable post-secondary, healthcare etc. and lower taxes for the middle class and poor etc.

[Rancid]

Exactly. Democrats and Republicans both fundamentally misunderstand the fact that the capitalist system itself is based on these kinds of divisions.

Here's a question. Is the answer to wipe it all away and start with something different (i.e. revolution)? Or is it possible that at some point it becomes so painfully obvious that capitalism just isn't working, that it could then evolve to something that's more sustainable? For example, you see more people calling for UBI. Maybe that's an early attempt to evolve capitalism.

[Beren]

Why would you wonder that when she's married to Trump? :?:

Maybe because she's still not the same as Trump? If Barron Trump learns any ethics from his parents at all, it must be his mother.

[skinster]

Maybe because she's still not the same as Trump?

What do you think she married him for, love?

[Beren]

What do you think she married him for, love?

In my opinion she loved him, and Trump loved her too. Or do you think it's impossible in their circles?

[KurtFF8]

Here's a question. Is the answer to wipe it all away and start with something different (i.e. revolution)? Or is it possible that at some point it becomes so painfully obvious that capitalism just isn't working, that it could then evolve to something that's more sustainable? For example, you see more people calling for UBI. Maybe that's an early attempt to evolve capitalism.

I don't think that reforming capitalism to become a new system is viable. The historical experience of class struggle shows pretty definitively that the ruling classes under capitalist societies will do just about anything to maintain their power.

[Sivad]

Trump is currently in the process of aggressively and entirely illegally prosecuting a journalist for publishing. Even that asshole Obama didn't go this far with Assange, understanding charging him would set a precedent against your first amendment.

That's not why Obama didn't charge him. Obama was atrocious on press freedom. Obama didn't charge him because it would set a precedent against the fake news publishing bullshit leaks from deep staters on the incoming administration.

Trump charging Assange is really dangerous but Biden would go a lot farther. Biden's not just going after press freedom or even just speech in general, Biden is going after bodily autonomy, informed consent, self-defense, you name it. If Trump is bad then Biden is a total nightmare.

Just that alone is reason enough for anyone in their right mind to vote Trump but that's not even the half of it. If Biden wins then the American public has condoned FISA abuses, politically motivated malicious prosecution, illegal unmasking, evidence tampering and obstruction of justice, all in the furtherance of an attempted soft coup by the deep state against a duly elected president. If Biden wins the filibuster goes, the court gets stacked, the senate gets stacked by DC statehood. Basically the end of rule of law and the country will go from a republic to a lawless democracy within the first term.

Yet the military budgets continue to pass and weapons continue to be sold. Wars are ongoing too.

Trump hasn't started or escalated any wars, he's done exactly the opposite. Biden will start major wars, that's guaranteed.

Trump's military spending is obviously garbage but it's only slightly worse than the last administration.

But hey, he said some stuff so...

If all Trump ever did was spout empty rhetoric and make token gestures that in itself would be more than enough because that alone would galvanize a movement that's would become way bigger than Trump. That's why all these libtards are so terrified, they know this thing is gonna take on a life of its own and it's gonna be unstoppable.

My understanding of politics is not based on what people like the sometimes actor Trump say, but what they do.

You're understanding of politics is a joke. Your thinking is so linear and two dimensional that you'll never be able to really see the plays.

If he was genuinely anti-establishment this would've happened already.

It's not that simple, this isn't the 1960s when there were only three tv networks. I'm sure it's been considered but it would cause such a massive backlash that it's not clear if they could get away with it.

[Igor Antunov]

Here's a question. Is the answer to wipe it all away and start with something different (i.e. revolution)? Or is it possible that at some point it becomes so painfully obvious that capitalism just isn't working, that it could then evolve to something that's more sustainable? For example, you see more people calling for UBI. Maybe that's an early attempt to evolve capitalism.

You have direct examples to work from, from recent contemporary history, with an identical theme.

Do you want to emulate 90's Yugoslavia (revolution and war), 90's Russia (economic shock therapy) or 90's China (careful, planned, piecemeal reform)?

?

[Politics_Observer]

@Igor Antunov

90's Yugoslavia (revolution and war)

I say we go with YUGOSLAVIA for $500 in this Jeopardy game *game show audience cheers and claps while Dr. Dre's rap song "Keep There Heads Ringing" plays in the background* as the choice from this list as the means to SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS. What do you think my Serb friend? We will be BETTER OFF afterwards, Right Igor? All we need is just a revolution, right?

Disclaimer: For those who didn't get the above post or just don't know. This is just a joke on my part and is not meant to be taken seriously. It is only meant to illustrate a point that revolutions usually don't benefit ordinary people and can actually make things worse or change nothing AND not make things better. And the goal, is to find solutions that improve the lives of ordinary people AND to make things better. Somebody from what was once a war torn country like Yugoslavia would probably know and understand this. Hence, my joke towards Igor Antunov whom I have reason to believe is actually from the former Yugoslavia and is probably a Serb given his chosen nick name on PoFo. End of disclaimer.

[skinster]

That's not why Obama didn't charge him. Obama was atrocious on press freedom. Obama didn't charge him because it would set a precedent against the fake news publishing bullshit leaks from deep staters on the incoming administration.

The fact is Trump is prosecuting Assange.

Trump charging Assange is really dangerous but Biden would go a lot farther. Biden's not just going after press freedom or even just speech in general, Biden is going after bodily autonomy, informed consent, self-defense, you name it. If Trump is bad then Biden is a total nightmare.

Biden sucks too.

Trump hasn't started or escalated any wars, he's done exactly the opposite. Biden will start major wars, that's guaranteed.

Yes that's guaranteed, but Trump continues to make war on plenty of countries. This is a fact.

Trump's military spending is obviously garbage but it's only slightly worse than the last administration.

It's just the same. That's my point. Both parties are the same but you've fallen for the idea that Trump is different just because he's more vulgar about what America does. Those in the establishment don't like him for that, if anything.

If all Trump ever did was spout empty rhetoric and make token gestures that in itself would be more than enough because that alone would galvanize a movement that's would become way bigger than Trump. That's why all these libtards are so terrified, they know this thing is gonna take on a life of its own and it's gonna be unstoppable.

Yet the military budgets continue to pass and weapons continue to be sold. Wars are ongoing too

You're understanding of politics is a joke.

My understanding of politics is not based on what people like the sometimes actor Trump say, but what they do.

It's not that simple, this isn't the 1960s when there were only three tv networks. I'm sure it's been considered but it would cause such a massive backlash that it's not clear if they could get away with it.

If Trump was genuinely anti-establishment he would've been assassinated already. The corporations that really run the country got trillions from him this year. And people like you think he cares about working people.

[Finfinder]

For those saying there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans I will point you to the 216 federal judges Trump has put in the court system. This is extremely important since we’ve seen the Democrats attempt to blow apart the executive branch of the constitution by Activist judges who have gone against the will of the people. Once Trump gets another four years the table will turn in that’s our stopgap against the people who hate America..

[Rancid]

For those saying there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans I will point you to the 216 federal judges Trump has put in the court system. This is extremely important since we’ve seen the Democrats attempt to blow apart the executive branch of the constitution by Activist judges who have gone against the will of the people. Once Trump gets another four years the table will turn in that’s our stopgap against the people who hate America..

There's a difference, just not a big one. Both still prop up the current system. It's in their interest because if the system changes enough, they become irrelevant, and neither of them want that.

[Finfinder]

I don’t disagree however it’s a massive difference judicially. A stacked liberal Supreme Court would mean the end of our election process and Perpetual liberal power. Liberals would also bypass our constitution through the court system.

Politicians are just a means to To leverage their own personal financial gain

[Rancid]

I don’t disagree however it’s a massive difference judicially. A stacked liberal Supreme Court would mean the end of our election process and Perpetual liberal power. Liberals would also bypass our constitution through the court system.

Politicians are just a means to To leverage their own personal financial gain

Don't both parties basically bypass the constitution as much as they can?

One thing that is true is that politicians and people are only constitutionalists when it's convenient to them.

[Sivad]

It's just the same. That's my point.

Well then your point is dumb because while there is a lot of overlap there are crucial differences in many key areas. In most election cycles the differences are negligible and it doesn't really matter, in this one there is a lot at stake. You can be all obtuse about it if you want, I don't really give a shit because this is zero impact pofo and outside of pofo I doubt you have enough people paying attention to you for your opinion to matter so all you're really doing here is being pointlessly dense on pofo.