[Istanbuller]

Hamas got same bonus time to prepare to face IDF. Let's hope that they take down as many Israeli soldiers as possible.

Free Gaza, free Palestine for ever.

[wat0n]

Capitalists and the far Right fascists that are in love with them are very very bloody people Wat0n. Bloody Right Wing assholes are everywhere.

If you really think about the really hardcore racists? Far more bloody really. I really dislike authoritarians in general. But the Right Wing like Augusto Pinochet and others really are in another league. Slinging Communist women doctors by drugging them first and then throwing them from airplanes in Argentina for example? Who mentions these things? Well, the Commie sympathizer Pope Francis.

Damn Right wing creeps are horrible haters.

But you deny. I would suggest you do not deny.

There is a lot of meddling. Lol. Going on.

How does this contradict what I said?

[Tainari88]

Acceptance of brutality in the left goes at least back to Marx, assuming you don't want to count the Jacobins as leftist.

It is implied the way you state this that the Left is brutality and so on. Marx was talking about working class revolutions. It is about overthowing an elite that does not give one fuck about working people. In all democracies in any capitalist system on planet Earth, all have way more regular working class people than ruling class. That is a fact. In a popular vote democracy and one in which you got class identifications and votes going by class backing without interferences Wat0n, you would have working class leaders that reflect the majority will.

But, as it has been witnessed? The ruling class and few and far between rich folks with power do not want that to be a really functional democracy of Proles taking over. So what happens? They lie, cheat and steal the elections. Not only of their own society, in the USA but in the other nations who dare to put their own national interests ahead of the corporate masters and ruling class masters in foreign nations. It is really vomit worthy horrible lack of ethics, morals or even basic humanity. They do not respect democracy.

Then you get a reaction. Where the authoritarians say, why should we allow different political parties? The ruling classes from the capitalist nations will just manipulate and lie and overthrow the democratic votes. No political parties that are not us. Period.

Blowback. That is the issue with all these terribly complex problems of who can control a strip of land in Palestine. A lack of respect for democracy. And they say they promote democracy? it is BULLSHIT Wat0n.

Entonces se ponen a lloriquear como pendejos cuando pierden control de la situacion...cuando fueron ellos mismos que crearon el lio. ESTUPIDOS SIN MORAL.

[Deutschmania]

@wat0n the IRA was still able to fight. They just chose to be politicians instead because that is where you make a difference. Which is what Hamas will do.

Create the state, things change.

As Carl Von Clauswitz once put it , "War is politics carried out by other means." And I would say that the inverse likewise holds told.

The War of a community—of whole Nations, and particularly of civilized Nations—always starts from a political condition, and is called forth by a political motive. It is, therefore, a political act. Now if it was a perfect, unrestrained, and absolute expression of force, as we had to deduce it from its mere conception, then the moment it is called forth by policy it would step into the place of policy, and as something quite independent of it would set it aside, and only follow its own laws, just as a mine at the moment of explosion cannot be guided into any other direction than that which has been given to it by preparatory arrangements. This is how the thing has really been viewed hitherto, whenever a want of harmony between policy and the conduct of a War has led to theoretical distinctions of the kind. But it is not so, and the idea is radically false. War in the real world, as we have already seen, is not an extreme thing which expends itself at one single discharge; it is the operation of powers which do not develop themselves completely in the same manner and in the same measure, but which at one time expand sufficiently to overcome the resistance opposed by inertia or friction, while at another they are too weak to produce an effect; it is therefore, in a certain measure, a pulsation of violent force more or less vehement, consequently making its discharges and exhausting its powers more or less quickly—in other words, conducting more or less quickly to the aim, but always lasting long enough to admit of influence being exerted on it in its course, so as to give it this or that direction, in short, to be subject to the will of a guiding intelligence. Now, if we reflect that War has its root in a political object, then naturally this original motive which called it into existence should also continue the first and highest consideration in its conduct. Still, the political object is no despotic lawgiver on that account; it must accommodate itself to the nature of the means, and though changes in these means may involve modification in the political objective, the latter always retains a prior right to consideration. Policy, therefore, is interwoven with the whole action of War, and must exercise a continuous influence upon it, as far as the nature of the forces liberated by it will permit.


24.

WAR IS A MERE CONTINUATION OF POLICY BY OTHER MEANS.

We see, therefore, that War is not merely a political act, but also a real political instrument, a continuation of political commerce, a carrying out of the same by other means. All beyond this which is strictly peculiar to War relates merely to the peculiar nature of the means which it uses. That the tendencies and views of policy shall not be incompatible with these means, the Art of War in general and the Commander in each particular case may demand, and this claim is truly not a trifling one. But however powerfully this may react on political views in particular cases, still it must always be regarded as only a modification of them; for the political view is the object, War is the means, and the means must always include the object in our conception. https://oll.libertyfund.org/page/clausewitz-war-as-politics-by-other-means

[Deutschmania]

Do we have any open Nazis here? The obvious candidates (e.g. Rei Murasame and Far Right Sage) have been gone for a while now. I think even they didn't regard themselves as Nazis, "just" fascists.

As I recall , a number of years back there was a self declared fascist here who ended up creating a thread in which he announced his newly accepted embrace of National Socialism. His username, as I just found out upon rediscovering the before mentioned topic thread , was "Stormvessel" . https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=164248 But as for current posters here, I don't think that all that many , if any, would openly declare their allegiance to such an anti-Semitic ideology , especially as such rhetoric would officially go against the terms of service . So any declarations of hostility towards the Jewish people would have to be more subtle and indirect. Such as by cloaking it under the cover of mere anti-Zionism , and/or a more general anti-Abrahamic sentiment. As people are supposed to be protected from hate speech, but perspectives, political , or religious , are not. As for the more generic professed fascism. The only poster here that is all that active in the forum that I have noticed, apart from on the Paternalism sub-forum , would be @Saeko . But I personally feel that she is at most no more than simply a National Bolshevik , in actuality, and a fascist only in name. I surprisingly get on with her better , in terms of comradery, than I do with even a number of self declared Marxists , on the forum, and this even after I not only came out against anti-Semitism , but also came out as being a Zera Yisrael Jew . I am reminded of this quote concerning "beefsteak Nazis" whom had joined the S. A. . " "In our storm troop there are three Nazis, but we shall soon have spewed them out." This is likewise how I view the composition of this forum. Those who actually are literal neo-Nazis, and/or anti-Semites will in time either come to revise their opinions , or will not wind up remaining here all that long.

[Tainari88]

As I recall , a number of years back there was a self declared fascist here who ended up creating a thread in which he announced his newly accepted embrace of National Socialism. His username, as I just found out upon rediscovering the before mentioned topic thread , was "Stormvessel" . https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=164248 But as for current posters here, I don't think that all that many , if any, would openly declare their allegiance to such an anti-Semitic ideology , especially as such rhetoric would officially go against the terms of service . So any declarations of hostility towards the Jewish people would have to be more subtle and indirect. Such as by cloaking it under the cover of mere anti-Zionism , and/or a more general anti-Abrahamic sentiment. As people are supposed to be protected from hate speech, but perspectives, political , or religious , are not. As for the more generic professed fascism. The only poster here that is all that active in the forum that I have noticed, apart from on the Paternalism sub-forum , would be @Saeko . But I personally feel that she is at most no more than simply a National Bolshevik , in actuality, and a fascist only in name. I surprisingly get on with her better , in terms of comradery, than I do with even a number of self declared Marxists , on the forum, and this even after I not only came out against anti-Semitism , but also came out as being a Zera Yisrael Jew . I am reminded of this quote concerning "beefsteak Nazis" whom had joined the S. A. . " "In our storm troop there are three Nazis, but we shall soon have spewed them out." This is likewise how I view the composition of this forum. Those who actually are literal neo-Nazis, and/or anti-Semites will in time either come to revise their opinions , or will not wind up remaining here all that long.

That is an interesting observation. I find that fascists have come and gone from this forum. Some were ethical about debates. They would make their points. Most of them wanted to not live in neighborhoods or in their own nations with what they considered undesirable populations. They felt that their duty was to create purist societies where people they felt were inferior would be filtered out and or kept at a permanent underclass level.

They often would waffle when confronted with 'inferior minorities' who wound up being rocket scientists, engineers, doctors or professionals when they would spout constantly about the low quality of those ethnic groups in terms of producing 'acceptable' socioeconomic classes.

They were Master Race people hiding as straight-laced individuals. Many backed Eugenics and gene modification in general for all members of society and often backed forced abortion of fetuses that were deemed subpar or not genetically perfect or of good quality. I remember a discussion I had with one of them who was shocked I would have kept my pregnancy even if I received the news that the child would be defective. They do not understand accepting imperfect people. Because they sincerely believe in genetic hierarchies.

They do not really understand the purpose of variation in all living things. You explain it to them and they think humans are like a dog breed. In fact, they often discuss dog breeding and human breeding programs interchangeably.

[SpecialOlympian]

What truly reminds of Jeffrey Dahmer is:

Bitch, I did not design the society that conscripted its own children into serving as Agents of Apartheid for 70+ years because the following options were unacceptable:

• If we allow Palestinians to vote and participate as citizens in the nation of Israel, we will be outnumbered and we will no longer be an Israeli/Jewish ethnostate
• If we allow Palestine to be a state, we will have to allow Palestine to establish a military and we might even be forced to treat them like equals

This bloodbath was inevitable after locking up 2 million people in an open air prison for decades. And frankly, deserved. Same way I, a US citizen, believe we deserved 9/11. You can't fuck around in the Middle East for decades and not expect to get punched back at some point, even if you're bigger and stronger and can push people around 99% of the time.

This was the 1% of the time and Israel is throwing the world's biggest shit fit over the fact that their citizens can die too, all while they rain bombs down on one of the most heavily concentrated populations in the world. In the name of ~self defense~

So Israel thought it could slowly starve and bomb the people of Gaza for decades because their real enemy wasn't the Palestinian people: it was their birth rates and their numbers. If those Palestinians had just waited and politely sat in the dirt waiting to die for a few decades, they could have been a small enough voting bloc where they could have finally joined Israel's flourishing democratic society as a minority with no real power.

If there is no Palestinian military, as if Israel would allow them to have one, then conversely there can be no Israeli citizens. Especially in a society where the majority of citizens are faced with prison or conscription to serve as Agents of Apartheid to enforce their current apartheid regime. You can't lock millions of people in a cage for decades and expect them to never fight back. It's fucking stupid to expect them to not radicalize in a militaristic fashion and never fight back, even if they're outgunned.

Would anyone here even respect the Palestinians if they had instead chosen the peaceful option of waiting to be starved to death while Israel controlled their water, power, and how much food they could import? If not, what diplomatic options would you suggest they should have tried?

Israel ate shit and rightly so. This was a problem they made, the same way we in the US complacently fucked around and found out after decades of shitting bombs on civilians and dumping money on our favored strongmen and warlords in the Middle East.

The current PM of Israel is directly responsible for the existence of Hamas. Why do we not blame Netanyahu for creating this problem?

[SpecialOlympian]

I can't believe Netanyahu was credited as a Producer on Rambo 3

[Unthinking Majority]

I imagine the plan is to establish checkpoints along the Wadi Gaza and only let civilians back to the North.

Basically establish an Israel-controlled border, since the border with Egypt leaks like a sieve.

They might do that. This would leave all of the munitions either left behind when people flee to the next safe zone for Israel to find, or taken more and more south by the militants until eventually they are isolated into the most southern zone. When Israel gets to the final most southern zone they can set up the final checkpoint and let the civilians back into the rest of Gaza northward. Anyone who wishes to stay in the southern zone could be targeted by Israel? Or the militants flee north through the checkpoints and have to leave their munitions behind for Israel to find.

Egypt is actually doing Israel a favour by blocking refugees from coming into Egypt, because they don't want the militants in their country either, or the war to spread there.

[Unthinking Majority]

I can't believe Netanyahu was credited as a Producer on Rambo 3

Doesn't Rambo 3 take place in Afghanistan?

[wat0n]

Bitch, I did not design the society that conscripted its own children into serving as Agents of Apartheid for 70+ years because the following options were unacceptable:

• If we allow Palestinians to vote and participate as citizens in the nation of Israel, we will be outnumbered and we will no longer be an Israeli/Jewish ethnostate
• If we allow Palestine to be a state, we will have to allow Palestine to establish a military and we might even be forced to treat them like equals

This bloodbath was inevitable after locking up 2 million people in an open air prison for decades. And frankly, deserved. Same way I, a US citizen, believe we deserved 9/11. You can't fuck around in the Middle East for decades and not expect to get punched back at some point, even if you're bigger and stronger and can push people around 99% of the time.

This was the 1% of the time and Israel is throwing the world's biggest shit fit over the fact that their citizens can die too, all while they rain bombs down on one of the most heavily concentrated populations in the world. In the name of ~self defense~

So Israel thought it could slowly starve and bomb the people of Gaza for decades because their real enemy wasn't the Palestinian people: it was their birth rates and their numbers. If those Palestinians had just waited and politely sat in the dirt waiting to die for a few decades, they could have been a small enough voting bloc where they could have finally joined Israel's flourishing democratic society as a minority with no real power.

If there is no Palestinian military, as if Israel would allow them to have one, then conversely there can be no Israeli citizens. Especially in a society where the majority of citizens are faced with prison or conscription to serve as Agents of Apartheid to enforce their current apartheid regime. You can't lock millions of people in a cage for decades and expect them to never fight back. It's fucking stupid to expect them to not radicalize in a militaristic fashion and never fight back, even if they're outgunned.

Would anyone here even respect the Palestinians if they had instead chosen the peaceful option of waiting to be starved to death while Israel controlled their water, power, and how much food they could import? If not, what diplomatic options would you suggest they should have tried?

Israel ate shit and rightly so. This was a problem they made, the same way we in the US complacently fucked around and found out after decades of shitting bombs on civilians and dumping money on our favored strongmen and warlords in the Middle East.

The current PM of Israel is directly responsible for the existence of Hamas. Why do we not blame Netanyahu for creating this problem?

Are you done justifying massacring complete families?

[SpecialOlympian]

No, I can go on.

Who were the previous owners of the homes bordering Gaza that these poor families were living in? Why did the so called invaders happen to have keys to their front doors?

Would you like to justify dropping bombs and white phosphorous on one of the most densely populated areas in the world? I might make it look easy when it comes to answering your stupid questions, but you might have trouble with this one.

[Fasces]

The only massacre that is justified is entire hospitals levelled by IDF missiles @SpecialOlympian.

[Unthinking Majority]

The Palestinians should realize they cannot win without winning over the "international community", i.e. the US and EU in particular, and maybe China. Slaughtering Israeli civilians doesn't help their cause in the slightest. Basically, they have to do a Zelensky and rub dick on the international stage. On top of that, they should turn Gaza into a little paradise, with the help of EU money, to show that they're capable of self-governance and make good citizens. If they use violence at all, which they shouldn't at this stage, since it's hopeless, it should be limited against Israeli checkpoints and military/police.

Gaza elected Hamas immediately after Israel agreed to completely withdraw from the Gaza in 2005 and Hamas and militants have used it as a launching ground for rocket attacks etc aimed at Israeli civilians ever since, and then they have the nerve to complain when Israel sets up a blockade in response to prevent arms from being smuggled into Gaza. Gaza is led by jihadist maniacs as has been proven again recently, and apparently they have a deathwish for themselves and their children/families.

It's much easier to feel sympathy for Palestinians in the West Bank because of the illegal settlement building and the fact that their leader isn't a violent terrorist nutjob and has actually tried for peace.

[Fasces]

Yes, the median age of Gaza is younger than the last Gaza election, but yes, civilians in Gaza deserve to be massacred anyway because the militia that runs their government did a bad thing, yes.

Incidentally, I also support any Iraqi that wants to kill an American.

[SpecialOlympian]

There is no greater threat to Israel right now than Netanyahu, the man who gave and encouraged giving material aid to the informal terrorist government of Hamas.

[wat0n]

The only massacre that is justified is entire hospitals levelled by IDF missiles @SpecialOlympian.

Which hospital would that be?

Certainly not the one yesterday, which was definitely not leveled:

No, I can go on.

Who were the previous owners of the homes bordering Gaza that these poor families were living in? Why did the so called invaders happen to have keys to their front doors?

Would you like to justify dropping bombs and white phosphorous on one of the most densely populated areas in the world? I might make it look easy when it comes to answering your stupid questions, but you might have trouble with this one.

Would you justify showing up to a festival and massacring patrons, after raping several of them?

[SpecialOlympian]

Would you justify showing up to a festival and massacring patrons, after raping several of them?

I'd encourage concert promoters not to hold raves near designated Ethnic Cleansing Zones.

I don't know about you, but it just seems to be bad vibes to hold a rave near a place where conscripted 19 year olds are actively holding 2 million people hostage and killing them via remote controlled machine gun turrets if they try to escape.

What do I know? I'm just a financial professional who people trust with their life savings. I don't know the intricacices of planning parties. But just on the face of it, that seems like a pretty basic "party foul" to me.

[wat0n]

I'd encourage concert promoters not to hold raves near designated Ethnic Cleansing Zones.

I don't know about you, but it just seems to be bad vibes to hold a rave near a place where conscripted 19 year olds are actively holding 2 million people hostage and killing them through remote controlled turrets if they walk outside an imaginary boundary.

How about showing up to a village, killing the adults and burning babies. Is that something you stand for?

Are you sure you aren't a neonazi yourself?

What do I know? I'm just a financial professional who people trust with their life savings. I don't know the intricacices of planning parties. But just on the face of it, that seems like a pretty basic "party foul" to me

Lmao you don't even know what a pension system is.

[SpecialOlympian]

How about showing up to a village, killing the adults and burning babies. Is that something you stand for?

Are you sure you aren't a neonazi yourself?

Whose village was it first?