[Finfinder]

@One Degree Look, I am a full time student, not the Head of the Treasury (from which Trump would fire me from anyways). In practice, the rates would be broken down and refined to affect those in the lower brackets less and those in the higher brackets more.

Of course, you have hardly ever paid taxes , why shouldn't you want everything for for free. You forgot all the other free programs like healthcare and basic income.

[MememyselfandIJK]

@Finfinder Look at my equations. I have assumed that all other programs stay the same. Furthermore, in the long term those programs will be even easier to find as high-education, high-income jobs dominate the labor market in response to the influx of educated students. Even then someone going into a low education job deserves a college education so they can be an active member of society. In the Soviet Union (I can find sources if you want), college education was widespread and even people who would eventually go into factory work were allowed education at colleges, art institutions, etc.

[One Degree]

@One Degree Look, I am a full time student, not the Head of the Treasury (from which Trump would fire me from anyways). In practice, the rates would be broken down and refined to affect those in the lower brackets less and those in the higher brackets more.

I am not attacking you. It is my job, as a self appointed judge of human reasoning failure, to point out all deceptions in reasoning. I am qualified to do this based upon my own self proclaimed superior reasoning.
In other words, I am just having fun arguing.

[Finfinder]

@MememyselfandIJK


What are you going to do with the people that get replaced by younger cheaper workforce .... Its happening now. Do you get a refund if you paid for college ? What about all these loans that kids are saddled with? I just don't see how society will be able to handle a generation that has never worked for anything. I also don't see any of this done without taxing the middle class. Its a hard sell the parasites eating the hosts.

[MememyselfandIJK]

self proclaimed superior reasoning.

Really? Try me. I'm not really putting in any effort, haha.

What are you going to do with the people that get replaced by younger cheaper workforce .... Its happening now.

You can just increase automation in order to provide for everyone. Ask any of the communists on this forum for more details (no time to explain right now).

Do you get a refund if you paid for college?

No

What about all these loans that kids are saddled with?

Canceled! Deal with it loan sharks!

I just don't see how society will be able to handle a generation that has never worked for anything.

Millennials have worked for plenty. They are dealing with the worst economy in generations, and have to adapt American culture to live with it (i.e. all the industries older people claim that they are killing)

I also don't see any of this done without taxing the middle class. Its a hard sell the parasites eating the hosts.

I just showed you! What more do you want? Second, the rich are the parasites, not the poor.

[Finfinder]

interesting.... its always the people who never paid taxes that want free things for themselves

[Pants-of-dog]

interesting.... its always the people who never paid taxes that want free things for themselves

Yes, rich people are often that way. They feel that just because they can hire good lawyers and accountants to get them out of paying taxes, they can do the same for other stuff.

Anyway, if you are talking about leftists who support universal health care, universal post secondary education, paid parental leave, and other socialist programs that capitalism has adopted, then count me in!

Now please show how I do not pay taxes.

My grocery bill says I do.

[Finfinder]

Yes, rich people are often that way. They feel that just because they can hire good lawyers and accountants to get them out of paying taxes, they can do the same for other stuff.

Anyway, if you are talking about leftists who support universal health care, universal post secondary education, paid parental leave, and other socialist programs that capitalism has adopted, then count me in!

Now please show how I do not pay taxes.

My grocery bill says I do.

First off you are Canadian so I wouldn't know secondly I was replying to @MememyselfandIJK who is a college student.

everybody pays sales tax I was referring to income tax

BTW what is rich people ? You are upset at people who earn income and pay as little taxes as they legally can and feel they are bad people. Like what other stuff don't they pay ? BTW feelings are irrelevant but I'll allow for this discussion.

[Reichstraten]

There are no left nationalists

Wrong:

Notable left-wing nationalist movements in history have included Mahatma Gandhi's Indian National Congress, which promoted independence of India; Bangladesh Liberation War; Sinn Féin, an Irish republican party; the National Bolshevik Party of Russia, the Communist Party of Cuba, and the African National Congress of South Africa under Nelson Mandela, which successfully ended apartheid.

source

[Ned Lud]

I'm an actual left-nationalist - our culture and language are under threat and I want them to survive in a world run by the working people democratically united. I do not see how any form of socialism is compatible with capitalist states, which democracy can only exist by destroying.

[Pants-of-dog]

First off you are Canadian so I wouldn't know secondly I was replying to @MememyselfandIJK who is a college student.

everybody pays sales tax I was referring to income tax

I also pay income tax. In fact, as a canadian, I may pay more than you.

So you are wrong about how only peope who pay no taxes want this type of stuff.

BTW what is rich people ? You are upset at people who earn income and pay as little taxes as they legally can and feel they are bad people. Like what other stuff don't they pay ? BTW feelings are irrelevant but I'll allow for this discussion.

Why do you think I am upset? Feelings have nothing to do with this, so there is no reason for you to bring them up. Unless you are just trying to accuse me of being emotional....

Back to the topic, rich people are those who have their money work for them, as opposed to the rest of us who work for our money. When I work, I get paid about half of what the client pays, and the other half goes to someone who did no work but gets paid because they inherited shares.

[Finfinder]

I also pay income tax. In fact, as a canadian, I may pay more than you.

So you are wrong about how only peope who pay no taxes want this type of stuff.

Pants-of-dog wrote:
Yes, rich people are often that way. They feel that just because they can hire good lawyers and accountants to get them out of paying taxes, they can do the same for other stuff.


Why do you think I am upset? Feelings have nothing to do with this, so there is no reason for you to bring them up. Unless you are just trying to accuse me of being emotional....

Back to the topic, rich people are those who have their money work for them, as opposed to the rest of us who work for our money. When I work, I get paid about half of what the client pays, and the other half goes to someone who did no work but gets paid because they inherited shares.

Honestly doesn't matter to me what you do in Canada, that is your problem you pay more taxes that sucks for you. I have already explained to you who I was responding too, I can't help it if you cannot comprehend and pick and choose what parts you want to reply to. You cannot start your own business or invest? Sure you are upset at rich people which you seem unwilling to define very well. Yes you are emotional you seem to know the heart and soul of what you describe as rich people.

You are upset at people who earn income and pay as little taxes as they legally can and feel they are bad people. Like what other stuff don't they pay ?

[Pants-of-dog]

Honestly doesn't matter to me what you do in Canada, that is your problem you pay more taxes that sucks for you. I have already explained to you who I was responding too, I can't help it if you cannot comprehend and pick and choose what parts you want to reply to.

Why are you discussing your incorrect ideas about who gets to reply to who? You claimed that the only people who support socialist polices are the ones who do not pay taxes. I have now disproven that.

You cannot start your own business or invest? Sure you are upset at rich people which you seem unwilling to define very well. Yes you are emotional you seem to know the heart and soul of what you describe as rich people.

I see. You are trying to accuse me of being emotional.

I know rich people becuase my first job in construction was renovating the houses of rich people. Not comfortable people, or well off people, but rich people.

You are upset at people who earn income and pay as little taxes as they legally can and feel they are bad people. Like what other stuff don't they pay ?

Well, my boss back then always complained that they would try and get us to work for free, and often threatened suing the company I worked for to get their money back.

Oh, and the car incident.

Anyway, I have amusing anecdotes about rich people, but they are not relevant to your disproven claim about how only people who pay no taxes support socialist policies.

[Finfinder]

@Pants-of-dog

No the only thing you have proven is that you are a hypocrite that judges people.
Your arguing style is rather annoying and childish where you take one pronoun like "all" or "only" adverb as a crutch yet you come back at me arguing and making judgments that ALL quote rich people are bad or whatever your deep seated anger and resentment is towards them. All rich people get out of taxes and paying for things Ok you showed me.

[Pants-of-dog]

No the only thing you have proven is that you are a hypocrite that judges people.

1. I never said I proved anything. I disproved your claim that only people who do not pay taxes would support socialist programs.

2. You are judging me here. You also seem to be implying that jusging people is wrong. So, if we combine the fact that you are judging with the assumption that you think it is wrong to do so, you are actually also being hypocritical. Which is humourous, but off topic.

Your arguing style is rather annoying and childish where you take one pronoun like "all" or "only" adverb as a crutch yet you come back at me arguing and making judgments that ALL quote rich people are bad or whatever your deep seated anger and resentment is towards them. All rich people get out of taxes and paying for things Ok you showed me.

I am perfectly willing to argue that many people who are too poor to pay taxes also support socilaist policies. Of course they would. Those programs are designed to help those people. Simple self-interest argues that this would be the case.

However, that does not mean that only poor people support socialism. Castro was a lawyer before the Cuban revolution. Guevara was a doctor. Neither of these guys was hurting for cash.

On the flip side, there are poor people who support the free market, which is illogical but still a fact.

By the way, I never argued that all rich people get out of paying taxes. But feel free to find a quote that says that.

[Finfinder]

1. I never said I proved anything. I disproved your claim that only people who do not pay taxes would support socialist programs.

2. You are judging me here. You also seem to be implying that jusging people is wrong. So, if we combine the fact that you are judging with the assumption that you think it is wrong to do so, you are actually also being hypocritical. Which is humourous, but off topic.



I am perfectly willing to argue that many people who are too poor to pay taxes also support socilaist policies. Of course they would. Those programs are designed to help those people. Simple self-interest argues that this would be the case.

However, that does not mean that only poor people support socialism. Castro was a lawyer before the Cuban revolution. Guevara was a doctor. Neither of these guys was hurting for cash.

On the flip side, there are poor people who support the free market, which is illogical but still a fact.

By the way, I never argued that all rich people get out of paying taxes. But feel free to find a quote that says that.

I should have used the word a lot for cripes sake's but you knew I didn't litteraly mean all inclusive. So annoying you take one word out of a paragraph and micro splice it. Why are your panties are all waded up its just a forum.


You laid out perfectly for all here to see your disdain for rich people not my judgement. Funny you certainly liked there money though when you cashed their checks .

[Pants-of-dog]

Let us assume that you wadded up my panties and that I hate rich people.

Does this disprove any of my claims? Am I any less right because of it?

[LeftNationalist]

This isn't about "hating" rich people. It's about hating a system in which such a small percentage of the population own the great bulk of capital and the means that produce, and use it to influence society and government in ways conducive to their own selfish ends. It's about recognizing the effects that such an unjust system has on the great populace, and the ways in which it contributes to societal disharmony and the suffering of our own people.

If someone is against the monarchy, it doesn't mean they have a personal beef with the king, nor does it mean they wish the king harm. So instead of saying that those who hate injustice hate rich people, perhaps we should ask why people who support the current system "hate" the working class.

[Finfinder]

If someone is against the monarchy, it doesn't mean they have a personal beef with the king, nor does it mean they wish the king harm. So instead of saying that those who hate injustice hate rich people, perhaps we should ask why people who support the current system "hate" the working class.

Very true unless they actually say it.

[EggbertEinstein]

Hello LeftNationalist

So much progress was made during the civil rights movement and I feel that while largely post-racial, identity politics are the last gasp of the capitalist class to keep division rife among proletarian ranks. The ostracizing of those so-called "whites" that do not own capital nor the means that produce it is done to make it "our fight" instead of "their fight", much the same way poor whites have tricked into fighting every war in our nation's history for the benefit of the rich. They always make it personal. It's these social, religious, and cultural institutions that are used by the bourgeoisie to lump white proletarians in with themselves, virtually using them as a shield from the wrath of the minority underclasses, when the white workers should snap out their delusions and join with the social minorities in the interest of revolution and social justice for ALL peoples.

I broadly agree with this. Certainly I see much of feminist ideology in this way. What better way to divide and rule than to pit half the population against the other.

However, some of your comments seem to more a case of anti-individualism than positive positive pro-social stance. For example, in the 4th paragraph of your first post it sounds like you are literally saying that identity is a modern perversion resulting from capitalism. Presumably this is not what you meant to say, but that is how it reads.

Wanting to be different and to have all these distinguishing labels is a natural part of individuation and should certainly not to be despised in the young. For me, the problem only comes when these things get hijacked by ideology. For example, when feminists start to establish a whole theory of domestic violence which is counterfactual, then that is a problem. Or when imaginary infractions of identity politics were used to try to undermine Jeremy Corbyn supporters (not enough women in the shadow cabinet, manufactured charges of anti-semetism at the party conference etc).

I was reading an interesting article by DW Winnicott yesterday about democracy. He mentioned that anti-social and anti-individual tendencies are two manifestations of a similar problem. He goes on to note that democracy relies upon being able to take a more mature perspective, having a well developed sense of both self and society and differentiating the two. I think he was right.

I guess what I am saying is that "the personal is the political" is no more potentially dangerous than "the personal is the enemy of the political." I propose a more helpful slogan "the personal and the political are complimentary".