[Puffer Fish]

Swan dies of broken heart after eggs smashed, knew that her chicks had been killed - Something to think about before getting an abortion

I was watching a news clip about a swan who died of a broken heart after her eggs were destroyed.

Swan 'Dies Of Broken Heart' After Teens Destroyed Her Eggs With Bricks - YouTube

Some teens threw bricks at the nest, resulting in the eggs getting smashed.
Out of distress and grief, the swan refused to eat or leave the nest, until she was finally found dead.

Swan 'dies from broken heart' after heartless yobs smashed her eggs with bricks - Mirror


Why did the swan suffer depression and grief, grief that was so intense it led to suicide of the poor mother animal?

Somehow, some way, the animal knew that those were her offspring growing & developing inside those eggs.

Now, if a swan has the sense to understand that her offspring exist even though they have not hatched and finished developing, how much more should a human mother?

Fun Fact: A swan egg is about the same length as a human fetus around 13 weeks gestation.
Swan eggs are about twice the length of a typical chicken egg.
When you eat chicken egg, they are unfertilized. Meaning sperm were not involved. "Conception" did not happen.

Swan embryology is a little bit different from humans.
Swan eggs take 35 to 41 days to hatch. (That's about 5 or 6 weeks)
In birds, the egg is laid within only about 1 day after fertilization takes place.
The yolk inside the egg is like the equivalent of a placenta in humans, only it contains enough nutrients for the chick and does not need to be attached to the mother's uterus. Necessary life-giving oxygen diffuses in through the shell of the egg.

You know what else is interesting? From conception to hatching, swan chicks can develop and be ready to hatch within only 5 or 6 weeks.
This is about the same time the majority of human women get their abortions!
If you want to ask the question how much fetal development is possible within 6 weeks...


However, humans do have one thing that birds do not. Humans are the only animal capable of lying to themselves.

[Puffer Fish]

Kind of getting off the topic of abortion or the science of animal gestation for a moment, this Swan incident happened in Manchester, U.K.

55% of the teens in secondary school in Manchester have parents from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Somalia, or Afghanistan, as of 2019.

source: https://democracy.manchester.gov.uk/mgC ... x?ID=17678


I'll let you come to your own assumptions, guesses or perceptions, whether you think that is at all relevant to this story.

Other cases of animal cruelty have been documented around that area.

[Godstud]

Kids are assholes. Trying to make an impilication that immigrants are to blame is disingenuous, and a dipshit thing to do, without clear evidence.

I don't know how you link this to abortion in humans. It's a stretch of your imagination.

[Szabo]

I am not one of those who thinks that it's a contradiction to admit that on purely moral and philosophical grounds, abortion is murder, and on the other hand to also admit that the world isn't developed enough yet to totally prohibit abortion.

I say we first put our house in order and make it possible for every pregnant woman to guarantee a long and healthy life for her child, and if they choose to give them up for adoption.

I say always keep abortion legal, but set up programs to dissuade women as much as possible from doing it and support them all the way with attractive incentives.

[ingliz]

@Puffer Fish

As foxes commonly take swans' eggs, and the banks of England's waterways are not littered with dead swans, it's plain to see the bird didn't die of a broken heart.

Swimming in shit most likely killed it.

Water companies released raw sewage into rivers and seas in England for more than 1.75 million hours last year.

— BBC News

[Rancid]

Nothing dies of a broken heart. THat's dumb shit people say.

[MistyTiger]

Your source is The Mirror? Isn't that a tabloid? The headline screams sensationalism and speculation, hardly a serious title. Some consider this click bait.

And it's rude to bring up countries like Bangladesh and Afghanistan, countries that many people love to discriminate against because those people are considered colored. But white is a color as well.

Whoever taught you about argument...clearly sucks. Your arguments are often nonsensical and offensive. As someone with ancestry from Asia, I found that offensive.

And does this thread belong in Health and Education? Perhaps the Philosophy forum is a better spot. The OP is speculation.

[late]

Swan dies of broken heart after eggs smashed, knew that her chicks had been killed - Something to think about before getting an abortion

You know, there are medical ethicists, doctors that have studied ethics, that have written books about this.

They know how to think rationally, apply their knowledge, and limn the problem space.

[Puffer Fish]

Whoever taught you about argument...clearly sucks. Your arguments are often nonsensical and offensive.

I concede you are correct, in the very specific case of this thread. I try being logical and it never gets anywhere with anyone. So I thought I would try the emotional approach instead.

As someone with ancestry from Asia, I found that offensive.

Oh please.
Unless you are actually from Pakistan or Afghanistan, or a Muslim from India, or Bangladesh, don't try to include yourself in the same category.
In the U.K., "Asian" is an invented ethnicity, does not really exist. A person from India is nowhere near the same ethnicity or race as a Chinese person. In the U.S., "Asian" refers specifically only to East Asians, such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese.

(And by the way, I didn't mean to single out Bangladesh specifically, was just including that to show this area has a higher immigrant population)

And does this thread belong in Health and Education? Perhaps the Philosophy forum is a better spot. The OP is speculation.

I could think of several places where this thread could have gone. But upon giving it some thought, I decided the best place was here. I actually gave it some thought.

I think the real clencher for me, that made me decide to put it in the Health & Education section was that it talks about bird biology and gestational development. That part was necessary so readers could better understand the comparison between birds and humans.

[Godstud]

In the U.K., "Asian" is an invented ethnicity, does not really exist. A person from India is nowhere near the same ethnicity or race as a Chinese person. In the U.S., "Asian" refers specifically only to East Asians, such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese.

Yes, because the racists have other names to call them.

MistyTiger is "Asian". That covers a great deal, as does actually calling yourself "American", or even "British" can. Were you to be more specific, you might say, "SE Asian", or even go by ethnicity, such as Chinese, Japanese, etc. Calling people "Asian" is a thing, even in the UK.

I see, however, that your goal in this thread, is to rant against immigrant who happen to have darker skin than yours. Racism seems to creep into many of your "arguments".

[MistyTiger]

Oh please.
Unless you are actually from Pakistan or Afghanistan, or a Muslim from India, or Bangladesh, don't try to include yourself in the same category.
In the U.K., "Asian" is an invented ethnicity, does not really exist. A person from India is nowhere near the same ethnicity or race as a Chinese person. In the U.S., "Asian" refers specifically only to East Asians, such as Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese.

(And by the way, I didn't mean to single out Bangladesh specifically, was just including that to show this area has a higher immigrant population)

In the US, Priyanka Chopra counts as being Asian, she is Indian. India is a South Asian country. Bangladesh is a country in South Asia. Pakistan is a country in South Asia too, type it in Google. Afghanistan is not in Asia but as I have known Middle Eastern people, I do not discriminate and they were decent people. Aside from religion, I did not consider them that different from me. I have worked around people from different countries. The US is considered a "melting pot" of different cultures. I do not single out anyone with different cultures or skin tones as myself. One of my closest friends has a darker skin tone but it never mattered to me. He is a good person and I am honored that he considers me one of his best friends in the world.

Asians are usually under-represented in the world. Go Asia!

[Godstud]

Afghanistan actually is in Asia. Israel, Turkey and Syria are, as well.
https://www.worldometers.info/geography ... s-in-asia/

[late]

I try being logical

You don't know how.

[MistyTiger]

You don't know how.

This could be a scene in a sit-com.

Puffer: I try to be logical.

Late: You don't know how.

*canned laughter is heard in the room*

Thank you for that!

@Godstud Oh, Afghanistan is in Asia! I stand corrected. Yet we consider it in the Middle East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan

I had a co-worker whose family was from Syria. There are some Lebanese in my area as well.

And also just remembered that there are Chinese muslims.

[Puffer Fish]

Afghanistan actually is in Asia. Israel, Turkey and Syria are, as well.

I hate this stupid argument, which always seems to come up again and again.

It depends on your definition of "Asia". Yes Pakistan is on the Asian continent, but most people would consider it to be more part of the "Middle East". At least in America, "Asia" most often refers to East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Thailand, Philippines)

I suspect in modern times they're trying to refer to Pakistan as "Asia" to be politically correct, and conflate it with ethnicities like the Chinese to help create a smokescreen and confusion. The continent of "Asia" is a very huge place. Calling anyone "Asian", beyond only referring to East Asia, is disingenuous (in my opinion).

If you still want to argue about this, start a separate thread.

[MistyTiger]

I hate this stupid argument, which always seems to come up again and again.

It depends on your definition of "Asia". Yes Pakistan is on the Asian continent, but most people would consider it to be more part of the "Middle East". At least in America, "Asia" most often refers to East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Thailand, Philippines)

I suspect in modern times they're trying to refer to Pakistan as "Asia" to be politically correct, and conflate it with ethnicities like the Chinese to help create a smokescreen and confusion. The continent of "Asia" is a very huge place. Calling anyone "Asian", beyond only referring to East Asia, is disingenuous (in my opinion).

If you still want to argue about this, start a separate thread.

United Kingdom
Main articles: British Asian, East Asians in the United Kingdom, and British Indo-Caribbean people
In the United Kingdom, the term "Asian" is more commonly associated with people of South Asian origin, particularly Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans.[3][18] Most respondents to the UK 2001 Census of non-Chinese East Asian and Southeast Asian descent chose to write-in their ethnicity in the "Other Ethnic Group" category rather than the "Other Asian" category, reflecting the association of the word Asian in the UK with South Asian.[19] Despite there being a strong presence of East Asians in the United Kingdom there are considerably more South Asians, for example the 2001 Census recorded 1.05 million people of Indian origin and 247,000 of Chinese origin in the UK.[20] Common origins in the "Other Asian" category include Filipinos, Afghans and Nepalese.[21] Peter J. Aspinall of the Centre for Health Services Studies, University of Kent, recommends privileging the term "South Asian" over the term "Asian", since the term "Asian" is a "contested term"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_people

Most people? No, Pakistan is Asian. I recall that Pakistan and India fight over where the border is. According to those in the UK if you check the link above, Pakistanis count as South Asian. In Arab states, Pakistanis are considered South Asian. New Zealand includes Pakistan as an Asian country. Canada "uses the term 'Asian' pan-continentally. "

And you are the one who mentioned the different countries...

[Godstud]

I hate this stupid argument, which always seems to come up again and again.

Do facts make annoy you? I feel sorry that your feelings were hurt by reality. It's not an argument. I presented irrefutable facts.

Indians are "South Asian". Chinese are "SE Asian". Iran is in the Middle East, but Asian. So is Egypt, which is within Africa. Continents exist!

I am an American, technically, even though I hail from Canada. That is because North America and South America are ALSO continents. Only people from the USA actually call themselves that, however.

Now get back on topic!