[adamlee]

When we were the Sick Man of Asia, We were called The Yellow Peril.
When we are billed to be the next Superpower, we are called The Threat.
When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.
When we embrace Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.
When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, Free Tibet you screamed, It Was an Invasion!
When tried Communism, you hated us for being Communist. When we embrace Capitalism, you hate us for being Capitalist.
When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights.
When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts.
When we build our industries, you call us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming. When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide. When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law.
When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights.
When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.
When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobics.
Why do you hate us so much, we asked.
No, you answered, we don't hate you.
We don't hate you either,
But, do you understand us?
Of course we do, you said,
We have AFP, CNN and BBC's...
What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer...
Because you only get so many chances.
Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for This One World.
We want One World, One Dream, and Peace on Earth.
This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

[Timkunming]

I just had to reply to this. It's got to be one of the most self-serving, misdirected things I've ever read, and the past few weeks I've been reading a lot of ridiculous things in newspapers and on the web here in China. So let's go through each bit:

First thing - who says they hate "China?" I don't hate China, of course, and I don't hate Chinese people - I feel pity for them. What I do hate is the government, who feel it necessary to restrict our access to information, and constantly feel the need to distort the truth, or flat out lie to us. Of course distortions and bias exist in the west, but they're private news companies. Everything here is controlled by the CCP, and through this fact alone, I think we ought to think clearly about whether or not the government is always telling us the truth. Loving the motherland is admirable - loving your people is admirable - loving an unjust government who has tortured us and lied to us and brainwashed us is not. In fact, in this case you could even be labeled and enemy of the Chinese people, as this kind of nationalism that has risen up lately has only put us back into the same place we were mentally during the Cultural Revolution: that is, that the west it out for China's blood, and China must be independent and go down it's own path. How wrong could you possibly be?


When we were the Sick Man of Asia, We were called The Yellow Peril.

- Racism is a shameful thing. I agree, designating people by the color of their skin can be humiliating. Perhaps the Qing left us in a shamble due to their own xenophobic economic and cultural policies.

When we are billed to be the next Superpower, we are called The Threat.

- Who calls China a threat? Nearly every other large nation. This isn't a personal attack - in very real terms, China is a threat to large western powers, economically and militarily (although admittedly less so). Not to mention, it's not likely China will ever be a superpower in the same vein as the USSR or the USA. There are simply too many problems at home, socially, politically, and environmentally that have yet to be solved.

When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.

- The opium trade was shameful. I find no problem in this at all. Agreed.

When we embrace Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs.

- A minority of people do this. Chinese should feel ashamed for allowing their people to work for slave-like wages. Unfortunately, the Communist Party was good at selling us out to the lowest bidder.
When we were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.

When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, Free Tibet you screamed, It Was an Invasion!

- It was an invasion. Read your history books - of course every country has conquered lands, but I'm quite sure if the majority of Tibetan people lived as prosperously as the Han Chinese and were allowed the freedom to worship, you wouldn't hear anything from the west about Tibet. Think about that.

When tried Communism, you hated us for being Communist. When we embrace Capitalism, you hate us for being Capitalist.

- Not sure what you mean here. The cold war mentality split east and west. Who exactly is "you" anyways? The general western white man?

When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.

- Mao Zedong's policies for child birth were absurd and far beyond what China needed. Being a "hero mother" was another brainwashing mechanism to bring up a generation of "red" children, willing to die for the cause of Chinese communism. Look at all the problems the population has caused us already!

When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights.

- I don't agree with this, national policy to control the population is admirable given the circumstances, but it cannot be denied that the one-child policy placed rural families in a bind, which resulted in thousands of cases of infanticide and continues to this day. Again, do some more research.

When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.

- I don't think anyone referred to the Chinese as dogs. In fact the Chinese received aid and help from western countries while fighting with Japan. Does the Flying Tigers mean anything to you?

When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts.

- Finances are a bit beyond the scope of my understanding, but it seems to be the value of the RMB being out of whack to what it should be. Perhaps here in China we should be looking at the inflation we're experiencing and how to lift all of the people out of poverty in the impoverished areas.

When we build our industries, you call us Polluters.

- Because most of them use coal - an abundant and cheap material in China, and also the most polluting. Not to mention lax regulations regarding dumping of waste. Check the case of the dolphin, Bai Ji, recently gone extinct in large part due to factory pollution.

When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming. When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide. When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation.

- Can't disagree with you here, mostly. However the Chinese certainly should have some sort of responsibility in regards to Sudan. Not to mention the Chinese supplying those responsible for genocide with Chinese-made weapons.

When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law.

- What period are you referring to here, exactly?

When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights.

- According to the Chinese constitution the people are guaranteed freedom or speech, press, religion, and the right to protest. In practice, this never happens. Such is the way of life under authoritarians. When was the last time a western country shot down it's own citizens demanding change?

When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.

- Again, not sure what you mean by this. Do the Chinese not want free speech, or are they mostly unaware of what free speech is? Given the events of the past few weeks, clearly this concept is beyond most of them.

When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobics.

- Refer to my previous comment. Xenophobic ideas have been brewing among the mainland communities for years, mostly encouraged by government propaganda about the motherland and the "Chinese" olympics.

Why do you hate us so much, we asked.
No, you answered, we don't hate you.
We don't hate you either,
But, do you understand us?
Of course we do, you said,
We have AFP, CNN and BBC's...

- Yes, all of those networks are independently run, and are free to air their views as they wish. Such is the right of any country with a free press. Again, this is something hard for most Chinese to understand. Perhaps it's China that doesn't understand the west?

What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer...
Because you only get so many chances.

- This seems threatening and ridiculous. Are you implying China can survive on it's own? We've seen where that has taken us from the past 60 years. We must remember China was able to build up so quickly due to manpower and an incredible amount of overseas investment. Let's not forget where most of our production technology came from to begin with.

Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for This One World.
We want One World, One Dream, and Peace on Earth.
This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.

- Last time - nobody is criticizing the Chinese people - no government is doing so. The Chinese can and should be proud people, but we have a responsibility to learn the truth, and no longer allow ourselves to be dragged around and used by an authoritarian government that disallows freedom of speech, press, and thought. It's time for the CCP to leave China, and under the heels of a proud Chinese people.

[HoniSoit]

This is an excellent post, Timkunming.

More critical and reflective opinions like this are in short supply among Chinese, and are very much needed.

[Quercus Robur]

people all over the world are fairly indifferent to the Chinese and certainly not afraid or annoyed about jobs and things to my knowledge... you may have to accept that there's not much of an agenda behind this Tibet irritant, other than the one your premier created himself by saying he'd start making progress on the whole 'treating Chinese people as human beings' thing

China is developing rapidly - it is already a major player and is set to be at the centre of a new world order. However there are various difficulties with the authoritarian setup and HR is just one.

[Timkunming]

How is China at the center of a new world order?
It seems like the west will still charge ahead...yes, the Chinese economy is booming, and it seems as if they will have a major influence in world politics (they already do, to a degree). But that would rely on the stability of the Chinese political system, and involve taking more than 500 million people out of utter poverty, educate them, and place them in society as productive individuals. This is a tremendous task, especially considering the weight the Chinese people have put on their environment thus far. The lack of regulation from the Chinese government regarding pollution and most certainly polluting of very important water reservoirs may very well be the most daunting task they face. Not to mention massive deforestation and the ever-growing Gobi desert.

If the Chinese government can clean up it's attitude and crack down on corruption, perhaps their future will be bright. But for those of you living outside of China, don't believe the hype, okay? Western media makes China out to be a huge threat, when politically at home there are myriad problems to be solved, namely corruption within nearly EVERY sector of society.

[Koga]

I hate China cause it has abortions.

But to be fair; I hate pretty much the whole world cause of that.


I just hate the Chinese slightly more...

[JMJX]

I had to reply your post too. For most part it is misleading, untrue, or at least unfair. Let's go through you comment by bit too.

First thing - who says they hate "China?" I don't hate China, of course, and I don't hate Chinese people - I feel pity for them. What I do hate is the government, who feel it necessary to restrict our access to information, and constantly feel the need to distort the truth, or flat out lie to us. Of course distortions and bias exist in the west, but they're private news companies. Everything here is controlled by the CCP, and through this fact alone, I think we ought to think clearly about whether or not the government is always telling us the truth. Loving the motherland is admirable - loving your people is admirable - loving an unjust government who has tortured us and lied to us and brainwashed us is not. In fact, in this case you could even be labeled and enemy of the Chinese people, as this kind of nationalism that has risen up lately has only put us back into the same place we were mentally during the Cultural Revolution: that is, that the west it out for China's blood, and China must be independent and go down it's own path. How wrong could you possibly be?

I'm not sure if you have heard what Cafferty said on CNN, so plz let me quote:

Chinese products is rubbish.

Over the past 50 years the Chinese people are basically mob and the culprits.

Plz tell me how that is targeted at the Chinese government instead of the Chinese ppl.
I don't believe it is an isolated event, since this kinda crap can be played on CNN， that means it must be somewhat accepted inside CNN itself. And plz don't give me the "freedom of speech" crap either. Freedom of speech protects you for expressing your own opinion, it certainly does not grant you the right to say crap to generally insult a group of ppl and get away with it. And don't tell me American government don't distort the truth, where's the "weapon of mass destruction" that they swear they saw? We love our country, we love our people, we don't really love our government - we make fun of it as much as you do, if not more, but we do feel responsible to the government, and we are trying to make it feel responsible for us.

Racism is a shameful thing. I agree, designating people by the color of their skin can be humiliating. Perhaps the Qing left us in a shamble due to their own xenophobic economic and cultural policies.

I agree. I see no problem with this.

Who calls China a threat? Nearly every other large nation. This isn't a personal attack - in very real terms, China is a threat to large western powers, economically and militarily (although admittedly less so). Not to mention, it's not likely China will ever be a superpower in the same vein as the USSR or the USA. There are simply too many problems at home, socially, politically, and environmentally that have yet to be solved.

No, it is not a personal attack, but it is where the attacks are coming from. The west attacked China at such a time in such perfect unison, and are willing to go as far as manipulting the truth and fool the crowd. Plz don't tell me that they "just wanna be friends".
Whether admit it or not, like it or not, China is on its route to become a superpower in the world. Of course, they are still many problems at home, but we are solving them and will solve them. They shall not slow down our footsteps.

The opium trade was shameful. I find no problem in this at all. Agreed.

Agreed as well.

A minority of people do this. Chinese should feel ashamed for allowing their people to work for slave-like wages. Unfortunately, the Communist Party was good at selling us out to the lowest bidder.

Burning Chinese shoes, boycotting or calling to boycott Chinese goods. That is a little too much to be called "minority".
Also, since you are so against Chinese cheap labors, how about you find a way provide jobs for those ppl at high wages? I am not supporting cheap labor, but I don't see a better alternative either.

It was an invasion. Read your history books - of course every country has conquered lands, but I'm quite sure if the majority of Tibetan people lived as prosperously as the Han Chinese and were allowed the freedom to worship, you wouldn't hear anything from the west about Tibet. Think about that.

Unless you consider United States invaded the Confederation, China did not invade Tibet. Tibet is a part of China. Tibetan ppl do have the right to freedom to worship, and they do live prosperously, at least more so since Dalai went into exile.

Not sure what you mean here. The cold war mentality split east and west. Who exactly is "you" anyways? The general western white man?

The cold war was as much fault for the western world as the Soviets. And even though I am not completely sure, I do believe the "you" here refers to the western world.

Mao Zedong's policies for child birth were absurd and far beyond what China needed. Being a "hero mother" was another brainwashing mechanism to bring up a generation of "red" children, willing to die for the cause of Chinese communism. Look at all the problems the population has caused us already!

Yes, we realized that it was a mistake. That's why we tried to fix it.

I don't agree with this, national policy to control the population is admirable given the circumstances, but it cannot be denied that the one-child policy placed rural families in a bind, which resulted in thousands of cases of infanticide and continues to this day. Again, do some more research.

Again, plz provide an alternative. China is already at a critical point that we don't have enough resource to feed this many ppl now. If you could find a way to control China's population growth without any side-effects, then plz.

I don't think anyone referred to the Chinese as dogs. In fact the Chinese received aid and help from western countries while fighting with Japan. Does the Flying Tigers mean anything to you?

I believe he is refering to a park in Shanhai(Which was in the area "on loan" to either Britain or France, I can't find which one it is) at the beginning of last centery. The park had a sign that said "No Chinese and dogs allowed."

Finances are a bit beyond the scope of my understanding, but it seems to be the value of the RMB being out of whack to what it should be. Perhaps here in China we should be looking at the inflation we're experiencing and how to lift all of the people out of poverty in the impoverished areas.

How is this any related with China buying over 40 billion American bonds, then having them turn around and blaming us for buying too much?

Because most of them use coal - an abundant and cheap material in China, and also the most polluting. Not to mention lax regulations regarding dumping of waste. Check the case of the dolphin, Bai Ji, recently gone extinct in large part due to factory pollution.

US pollutes about four times more than China per person. And they are the one who refused to sign both the Tokyo Protocol and the Kyoto Protocol, along with many other things that promotes pollution reduction.

Can't disagree with you here, mostly. However the Chinese certainly should have some sort of responsibility in regards to Sudan. Not to mention the Chinese supplying those responsible for genocide with Chinese-made weapons.

"None interventon in other country's domestic affair." It is written in the UN Charter.

What period are you referring to here, exactly?

The Culture Revolution I presume.

According to the Chinese constitution the people are guaranteed freedom or speech, press, religion, and the right to protest. In practice, this never happens. Such is the way of life under authoritarians. When was the last time a western country shot down it's own citizens demanding change?

"All men are created equal." -- Thomas Jefferson in Declaration of Indepence
Then how come US had slavery for almost 90 years? Because "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. "?

Again, not sure what you mean by this. Do the Chinese not want free speech, or are they mostly unaware of what free speech is? Given the events of the past few weeks, clearly this concept is beyond most of them.

When we spoke our mind, and what did Cafferty call us? "Mob and Culprits". Why are they afraid of Chinese finally telling the world what they think? Or they are just afraid that China was not free to the way they wanted us to be?

Refer to my previous comment. Xenophobic ideas have been brewing among the mainland communities for years, mostly encouraged by government propaganda about the motherland and the "Chinese" olympics.

Actually, a lot of ppl believe in the western media much more than they believed in the government. But this time, CNN taught a lesson. The western media are full of crap just like the government properganda. That is the reason why they raged.

Yes, all of those networks are independently run, and are free to air their views as they wish. Such is the right of any country with a free press. Again, this is something hard for most Chinese to understand. Perhaps it's China that doesn't understand the west?

Refering to my previous comment. Freedom of speech is protects for expressing you opinion, it doesn't grant you the right to insult other country and ppl then get away with it. Or is this something that's hard for the western world to understand for that you are used to making up crap to insult the others?

This seems threatening and ridiculous. Are you implying China can survive on it's own? We've seen where that has taken us from the past 60 years. We must remember China was able to build up so quickly due to manpower and an incredible amount of overseas investment. Let's not forget where most of our production technology came from to begin with.

No, your comment seems threatening and ridiculous. Don't push China too far, for if we fall, we are not going down alone.
China's production techonology came from the Soviets in the early 50's, then when China and the Soviets relations went to crap in the late 50's and early 60's, China developed most of it own techonology.

Last time - nobody is criticizing the Chinese people - no government is doing so. The Chinese can and should be proud people, but we have a responsibility to learn the truth, and no longer allow ourselves to be dragged around and used by an authoritarian government that disallows freedom of speech, press, and thought. It's time for the CCP to leave China, and under the heels of a proud Chinese people.

Good, cause if any government is criticizing us, they shall know that it will cost them. China will go in its own route, and we are the ones who will decide which route that is. If overthrowing the current gov't is in our favor, we will do it. But we are not puppets of the western world, we will not do so just cause you pulled a string and told us to.

[Noelnada]

We want One World, One Dream, and Peace on Earth.

So do i.

[ThereBeDragons]

Freedom of speech protects you for expressing your own opinion, it certainly does not grant you the right to say crap to generally insult a group of ppl and get away with it.

...

Freedom of speech is protects for expressing you opinion, it doesn't grant you the right to insult other country and ppl then get away with it. Or is this something that's hard for the western world to understand for that you are used to making up crap to insult the others?

In the United States and most of the West, that's exactly what it means.

As for "mob and culprits," it may help to look at the exact quote: "I think they are basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they have always been over the past 50 years."

Here, Cafferty is referring to the Chinese government, and it's evident to most that he's doing so. Blanket statements like this simply aren't made about an entire country's people, and there is very little precedent for it. As for Chinese products being rubbish, he is referring to the fact that the products that China produces - and this is a fact - are of relatively lesser quality compared to that produced by many other countries, which is what he was trying to express. He may be exaggerating or inappropriately expressing this sentiment by his extreme statement, but to allege that he is racist because of it will be be a charge that's hard to stick.

Chinese people may not like it when these kinds of statements are made, but that's exactly what freedom of speech guarantees. Keep in mind, too, that Cafferty is not a spokesperson for CNN, nor for the American people. He merely hosts one of its programs. His opinions are not pre-screened to make sure everything he says is 100% in line with what CNN thinks. To assert that means that "this thinking is common in CNN" is also not true - it only means that CNN allows him to express the opinion he holds.

[adamlee]

Thank Jmjx's Reply, I Really Appreciate It.

It Is A Poem Published In Washington Post. You Can Also Find It There.

[Eauz Edit:]Please refrain from using all capital letters when you post.

[Tailz]

Timkunming wrote a wonderful rebuff, I could not agree more with what he wrote.

JMJX wrote:

Chinese products is rubbish.

Could this be because a lot of Chinese goods have been made with inferior materials, have used the cheapest possible labor around (unskilled labor), and then tried to cut even more costs by cutting corners in production? Didn't the Government just recently sentence to death the fellow who was in charge of the medicine industry because heaps of people were dieing after taking medicine tainted with inferior materials? Not to mention the recall of kids toys that went on last year.

It only sounds harsh to you as the phrase insults your nationalist feelings - problem is China does produce a vast number of poor quality products. Now China does produce some good top quality stuff, but the amount of crap is giving China a bad name.

I stopped buying cloths made in China because I was tired of buying something I like, only to have it a different shape, size, or color after it comes out of the washing machine!!

[JMJX]

Like I said, Timkunming's reply was untrue and unfair. And I have shown why that is.

Chinese products is rubbish.

Unfortunately you only get what you paid for. You can't pay 5 dollars for a shirt then turn around and call it rubbish just because it's not as good the 30 dollar 1. Also, China's food export to America qualification rate is over 99%, that's more than Denmark and Domi Nica, while American food export to China is only at 98.89%. This rumor probably started because China export in such a huge amount, and a lot of the products are focused on the low end market.So again, such accusation is untrue and unfair. And when Cafferty put in that kind of text, yes, it did insult us.

[adamlee]

can I have the rights to express my own ideas?

if so, below is my opions about US:

American history is the one of original indian's blood and tears.

I think us is basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they have always been over the past 200 years.

[ThereBeDragons]

You see, you just did.

The difference is, thousands of Americans aren't going to protest and demand you be banned from expressing your opinion.

I think you will probably find that insults against a country carry much less weight in America. It's a cultural difference.

[JMJX]

And I think Americans need to learn and respect such differences, and not insult the country's who take such insults seriously. And Cafferty was not just insulting our country. He was directly insulting us, the Chinese. It was plain discrimination, and I don't think that kinda crap is allowed in the States either, or at least it shouldn't be.

[HoniSoit]

Like I said, Timkunming's reply was untrue and unfair.

I see he's just guilty of happening to be the rare sane and rational voices among Chinese these days.

[JMJX]

And of course, when the majority of us are silent, we don't have the freedom of speech. When we spoke out, our opinions are irrational and under the influence of gov't properganda. Why don't you just say it? We'll only be rational and free when you hear what you want us to say.

[HoniSoit]

Who are these 'we' and 'you'? I see you are a great fun of Bush.

Timkunming is Chinese, so am I. It just happens 'we' think there is a great deal of irrationality resulting from a combination of not knowing (let alone experiencing) the plight of Tibetan people, and inability to reflect on how Tibetans might feel about being discriminated against, and suppressed.

[ThereBeDragons]

When you are silent because the government prosecutes you for saying certain things, that's bad and should stop. When you speak, perhaps you are under the influence of government propaganda, and perhaps that's not good - but what we want isn't for you to stop speaking, even if we do thing you're wrong. With very few exceptions nobody is telling you to go away, and saying that you're mistaken on some things isn't doing that.

[JMJX]

"we" as the majority Chinese that have shown our support to the Olympics and the gov't stance on the Tibet issue. "you" as those who don't.

You have yet to prove that Tibetans are actually been discriminated against and supressed, and you have yet to prove that I am truly irrational but still you went ahead to insult me. I am sorry to say this, but you are too full of youself.