- 02 Oct 2014 11:15
#14470948
Someone who whines about insults, surely knows how to not throw any, right? But it doesn't matter to me I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy and the irony inherited in your whining about insults, get it?
Also, lol at "me repeating my arguments", if you stop yours and actually countered my arguments, I will not have to repeat myself but it seems once again that you are incapable to do so and here once again you repeated the same nonsense.
And this is nothing but a huge strawman and another proof for your failure to understand basic things that your opponents are saying.
1. Not all ISRO budget is concerned with development, it includes buying too as you yourself have mentioned. In fact 30% of ISRO's budget is not related to extra terrestrial at all.
2. ISRO does manages to sell her product (once again for the nth fucking time, see Antrix)
3. You don't have to break even through indigenous launches only, see Antrix. Ever heard of a thing called buying and selling?
4. Also most of your points are an exaggeration and its obvious the way you are manipulating things here (as my points show), there is more to your argument that an unbiased analysis.
False, stupid repetitions once again, already rebutted. Try refuting my points in my first reply to you first but you obviously can't.
I get it, it wasn't an honest mistake but you were outright lying in last post as in this (as same honest mistake can't be done in straight two posts).
Here, I quoted a correct figure (why don't you cite your own figure?) in a bid to refute a specific point of yours, it was not meant to be a comparison or anything like that with other countries and of course I refuted your point with that figure (my point being that the ISRO budget is a drop in proverbial ocean) but it seems that when utterly unable to further pursue that line of argument, you twisted that figure and used in a completely different context while accusing me of spinning. Its more disgusting than any insults anyone can throw. Try to do better.
But still let's put the numbers in the context where you want them right now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Union_budget_of_India
Total Expenditure = 270 billion USD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research_Organisation
Total Budget = 1.1 billion USD
Can you calculate it? If yes, then you will arrive at the answer which will tell you that budget for ISRO is nothing but a pittance and now that you have been proven once again wrong, will you either a) concede the point or b) argue with my argument or as usual choose c) and repeat yourself while ignoring everything?
Wrong, see my first reply which you are yet to rebut, making stupid speculations is not an argument in order to conclude anything and this post of yours is nothing but another speculation backed up by nothing.
You have been implying that from start by rhetoric of "oh that money should be spend elsewhere", don't backtrack now.
False and already been rebutted countless time, I am yet to see any rebuttal of my first reply to you listing the countless benefits to which you haven't provided one single counter argument.
Space Program has been indeed greatly beneficial for the country.
The fucking irony. Seriously stop whining about insults, see pot and Kettle.
Obviously you implied that and more than once as anyone can see I have been asking again and again why make such a big case over an amount of money that's so minuscule (no reply has been provided yet btw). Your case is filled with rhetorics like :
India falling behind, Hundreds of million poor and many other such examples
as if all these problem can be solved by scrapping ISRO and hence the question, why bring all these problems if you think (to which you are admitting now only) it won't have much impact overall?
There's no fact in your argument just denial and repetitions and that is exactly why I asserted you are either of the two. But I will admit that I shouldn't have posted this as it doesn't really matter either if you are one of those or not, hence apologies for it.
And here we go with self boasting again, it literally took me less than a minute to find an article from the industry with positive views for this mission.
Look, don't try to climb the ladder of self righteousness, usually I don't cry foul about it but you had more than your share of insults and polemics while its once again ironical to see someone who has posted any facts for the first time in this very last post whilst my every single post is filled with facts, most of which you chose to ignore.
Your habit of actually ignoring any counter arguments in order to just repeat yourself (even after I am asking again and again to respond to my particular arguments) is rather tedious and dishonest, try rectifying those before going on a lecture spree.
Oh and people (including me) who generally get bored or enough of a thread leave that thread without making a big fuss in order to save face but its also one of those very old debating trick as if it helps.
What I said is self-evident. It is beyond me why you don’t understand it. You are just repeating your invalid arguments. Here, the last and final time (in short phrases for dummies):
Someone who whines about insults, surely knows how to not throw any, right? But it doesn't matter to me I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy and the irony inherited in your whining about insults, get it?
Also, lol at "me repeating my arguments", if you stop yours and actually countered my arguments, I will not have to repeat myself but it seems once again that you are incapable to do so and here once again you repeated the same nonsense.
development cost = big, manufacturing costs = small
> if you don't have to pay for the development, you save big time
- e.g., heavy lift launcher development 3 to 5 billion, cost of one launch < 100 millions.
> impossible to recoup development cost even with 100 launches, certainly not with half a dozen Isro launches
- If you buy GE or Hughes satellite, the development has already been paid by NASA
- GE makes 50 satellites when Isro makes 2
> GE satellite much cheaper for you: no development cost + economy of scale.
- Isro cannot sell satellites to international customers because GE and Hughes satellite much better.
>> GE satellite much better and far cheaper
>>> Services provided by said satellites much better and far cheaper.
And this is nothing but a huge strawman and another proof for your failure to understand basic things that your opponents are saying.
1. Not all ISRO budget is concerned with development, it includes buying too as you yourself have mentioned. In fact 30% of ISRO's budget is not related to extra terrestrial at all.
2. ISRO does manages to sell her product (once again for the nth fucking time, see Antrix)
3. You don't have to break even through indigenous launches only, see Antrix. Ever heard of a thing called buying and selling?
4. Also most of your points are an exaggeration and its obvious the way you are manipulating things here (as my points show), there is more to your argument that an unbiased analysis.
Consequently, there are no economic benefits and space will always be a cost factor (increasingly) without ever generating any economic benefit for India.
False, stupid repetitions once again, already rebutted. Try refuting my points in my first reply to you first but you obviously can't.
You quote a false figure without context. This is the usual spin every space agency in the world uses to fool the public and get a bigger share of the national budget.
I get it, it wasn't an honest mistake but you were outright lying in last post as in this (as same honest mistake can't be done in straight two posts).
Here, I quoted a correct figure (why don't you cite your own figure?) in a bid to refute a specific point of yours, it was not meant to be a comparison or anything like that with other countries and of course I refuted your point with that figure (my point being that the ISRO budget is a drop in proverbial ocean) but it seems that when utterly unable to further pursue that line of argument, you twisted that figure and used in a completely different context while accusing me of spinning. Its more disgusting than any insults anyone can throw. Try to do better.
But still let's put the numbers in the context where you want them right now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Union_budget_of_India
Total Expenditure = 270 billion USD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Space_Research_Organisation
Total Budget = 1.1 billion USD
Can you calculate it? If yes, then you will arrive at the answer which will tell you that budget for ISRO is nothing but a pittance and now that you have been proven once again wrong, will you either a) concede the point or b) argue with my argument or as usual choose c) and repeat yourself while ignoring everything?
And if you have 1.3 billion (or more like 2 billion if you add space related funds from other ministries including Earth Sciences and Defense) a year, you have an awful lot of money spent without any economic benefit whatsoever. The cost will increase, but there will never be any economic benefit.
Thus, it is not true that space development is cheap or economically beneficial for India.
Wrong, see my first reply which you are yet to rebut, making stupid speculations is not an argument in order to conclude anything and this post of yours is nothing but another speculation backed up by nothing.
I didn't say you have to scrap Isro (even though it’s a bureaucratic monster, but that's your business)
You have been implying that from start by rhetoric of "oh that money should be spend elsewhere", don't backtrack now.
I said space development has no economic benefit for India (see A) above). If you want to pursue it anyways, that's fine, but don't pretend there is any economic benefit.
False and already been rebutted countless time, I am yet to see any rebuttal of my first reply to you listing the countless benefits to which you haven't provided one single counter argument.
Space Program has been indeed greatly beneficial for the country.
You continue with your insults, even though you are incapable of understanding the most basic of facts.
The fucking irony. Seriously stop whining about insults, see pot and Kettle.
I never said that India will be rich by scrapping space.
Obviously you implied that and more than once as anyone can see I have been asking again and again why make such a big case over an amount of money that's so minuscule (no reply has been provided yet btw). Your case is filled with rhetorics like :
India falling behind, Hundreds of million poor and many other such examples
as if all these problem can be solved by scrapping ISRO and hence the question, why bring all these problems if you think (to which you are admitting now only) it won't have much impact overall?
Another unfounded personal insinuation. You quote an arbitrary assertion about me from an internet persona you don’t know and who very obviously doesn’t know me. Why am I Sinophile?
What has that got to do with anything?
Why am I Indophobe by pointing out the fact that it would be more advantageous for India to use very limited resources to develop economically beneficial programs instead of wasting that money?
There's no fact in your argument just denial and repetitions and that is exactly why I asserted you are either of the two. But I will admit that I shouldn't have posted this as it doesn't really matter either if you are one of those or not, hence apologies for it.
No, everybody in the industry knows this perfectly well. The same applies to India.
And here we go with self boasting again, it literally took me less than a minute to find an article from the industry with positive views for this mission.
Your habit of denying every single phrase with unfounded arbitrary assertions spiced with polemics is not conductive to a constructive discussion. If you want to elicit a reply from me, I suggest you keep it factual and skip your derisory and insulting language and stop making unfounded personal insinuations, because I don't even read such posts. Your polemics are a momentous waste of time.
Look, don't try to climb the ladder of self righteousness, usually I don't cry foul about it but you had more than your share of insults and polemics while its once again ironical to see someone who has posted any facts for the first time in this very last post whilst my every single post is filled with facts, most of which you chose to ignore.
Your habit of actually ignoring any counter arguments in order to just repeat yourself (even after I am asking again and again to respond to my particular arguments) is rather tedious and dishonest, try rectifying those before going on a lecture spree.
Oh and people (including me) who generally get bored or enough of a thread leave that thread without making a big fuss in order to save face but its also one of those very old debating trick as if it helps.
"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form." Karl Marx