[wat0n]

@Tainari88 placing the burden of proof on whites made sense in the 1990s or even the 2000s, but I don't think there's any prospect of whites being able to reestablish Apartheid anytime soon. It is the ANC which needs to get its shit together or it will likely be replaced. I don't know what will replace the ANC but it will surely not be an all-white party, based on demographics alone.

If I had to bet, it will be a party that's father to the left than the ANC and which will actively refuse to seek any sort of reconciliation.

[Tainari88]

This doesn't seem to be applicable to South Africa. The US managed to get its shit together during Washington's second term, but South Africa's governance seems to be getting worse and not better over time if anything (that's also not counting that the US got its independence after a war while the end of Apartheid was largely negotiated within SA). Debating about racism doesn't seem to help with the problem either, the ANC has been in power for almost 30 years now and it's quite clear it has degraded from what it was during Mandela's term - if anything, it seems to be used as a way to distract from the myriad of issues plaguing the country.

If I had to guess, many South Africans in general and whites in particular will eventually emigrate if their government doesn't get its shit together. If so, the racial problem will be solved simply because there won't be too many people around anyway.

Have you read Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States?

The reality is that the big wonderful advances reached in society was not done by some old white men with slaves that they had a lot of children with like Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings in Monticello in Virginia. No. The big advances were done by ordinary workers and farmers, and working class people and country folk who milk cows and fish and hunt in Georgia like Politics Observers parents going and getting together to solve problems together.

That works for everyone on the Earth. A bunch of people cooperating and working hard to solve problems together because all of them identify with each other and want something better in their society. It is really that damn simple.

And that goes for all races, nationalities. All of us. But somehow we are fighting with each other because we are told that we are different or we are competing for scarce resources and the other ones are gonna steal our shit, or take our shit, or our jobs and the divide and conquer crap is always the same stupid tactics used by the upper crust.

The poor farmers scraping by and not the big gentry landowners in old Georgia used the tactic of pitting the white poor farmers against the Native Americans and the Blacks and everyone else they could pit them against. So they would not identify as a class and as a group that under a democracy are the MAJORITY of the population. Not a minority. Anything that smacks of cooperation between a large class of people in a democracy where one vote and one person system is actually working is a threat to their power. It has always been that way.

And people fall for that false, lying piece of shit manipulation. They need to stop that and start cooperating. Because the future is going to be a big problem. Polluted crap and climate change and unless we learn to harness the power of human cooperation and respect for all the cultural histories on the earth and honor DIVERSITY. We will founder and we will fall on the sword of nature trying to balance out the damage done by the Capitalist freaks. Who manufacture nuclear weapons and they sell it for a profit. Do they care that it might be used to kill the human race and have radiation and nuclear winter for millions? Where only the damn cucarachas survive the bomb? No, they don't care. Yet you got people like you who love....capitalism. The greatest for profit only dumb ass self destruction system that you defend to your last dying breath.

Bacon's Rebellion:

Maya Angelou:

@JohnRawls develop the courage to admit social injustice and the rest. Because Angelou is right. Fear motivates most of the cruelty in our world. That is absolutely TRUE.

[Tainari88]

The courage has to happen for these living in denial people who refuse to admit that yes, we had no right to deny the human rights of these people. They come up with excuses. Even after they had to let Mandela out of Robin's Island.

The Cubans put the pressure on and the Cold War...was an excuse to say, the Communists are the ones who will take over if we can't keep up the racist shit.

I read between the lines. He was pressured to change society.

Yes, we did this....we changed. No man you fucking had to change. The pressure was too much for you!!

Learn from this. The White Supremacists in the USA will have to have pressure put on them so hard....that they become like De Klerk. Give it up folks. The pressure will come. Because the USA is not going to be mostly white for a few more decades in the future. And once you have mostly non-Europeans voting in or out people....you can't be with the racist fear excuses anymore. It will not make sense.

These white South Africans need to just listen to what Black ex-slaves told this interviewer who was white and it stuck with that white man his whole life....because he had racism disease.

[wat0n]

Have you read Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States?

The reality is that the big wonderful advances reached in society was not done by some old white men with slaves that they had a lot of children with like Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings in Monticello in Virginia. No. The big advances were done by ordinary workers and farmers, and working class people and country folk who milk cows and fish and hunt in Georgia like Politics Observers parents going and getting together to solve problems together.

That works for everyone on the Earth. A bunch of people cooperating and working hard to solve problems together because all of them identify with each other and want something better in their society. It is really that damn simple.

And that goes for all races, nationalities. All of us. But somehow we are fighting with each other because we are told that we are different or we are competing for scarce resources and the other ones are gonna steal our shit, or take our shit, or our jobs and the divide and conquer crap is always the same stupid tactics used by the upper crust.

The poor farmers scraping by and not the big gentry landowners in old Georgia used the tactic of pitting the white poor farmers against the Native Americans and the Blacks and everyone else they could pit them against. So they would not identify as a class and as a group that under a democracy are the MAJORITY of the population. Not a minority. Anything that smacks of cooperation between a large class of people in a democracy where one vote and one person system is actually working is a threat to their power. It has always been that way.

And people fall for that false, lying piece of shit manipulation. They need to stop that and start cooperating. Because the future is going to be a big problem. Polluted crap and climate change and unless we learn to harness the power of human cooperation and respect for all the cultural histories on the earth and honor DIVERSITY. We will founder and we will fall on the sword of nature trying to balance out the damage done by the Capitalist freaks. Who manufacture nuclear weapons and they sell it for a profit. Do they care that it might be used to kill the human race and have radiation and nuclear winter for millions? Where only the damn cucarachas survive the bomb? No, they don't care. Yet you got people like you who love....capitalism. The greatest for profit only dumb ass self destruction system that you defend to your last dying breath.

Bacon's Rebellion:

Maya Angelou:

@JohnRawls develop the courage to admit social injustice and the rest. Because Angelou is right. Fear motivates most of the cruelty in our world. That is absolutely TRUE.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the ANC has become corrupt and incompetent, none of which help with social justice at all.

[Tainari88]

This has nothing to do with the fact that the ANC has become corrupt and incompetent, none of which help with social justice at all.

Reconciliation is not possible until Black South Africans cope with their own self image and the economic landscape. I agree with this white South African woman. It has an issue with ANC government it was by design that whiteness continued to rule. Why? She explains it.

I am an international socialist. The colony is in the worship of whiteness and the curtsey of whiteness. She is right.

That is my opinion about the issues in South Africa.

The mind has to shift from reconciliation and towards true Black consciousness.

Do white people have a conscience in South Africa listen to this woman....she got the problem. It needs to change.

They got to stop acting like junior partners. She is right.

That is the work that all colonized minds have to do @wat0n, and you are one of the most colonized mentality writers on here. Thinking that crap that caudillismo was a Latin American feature of life. It never was.

Eres bien colonizado y estas bien equivocado.

Every human culture and group has to give itself the dignity of being themselves and acting like the Senior partner in their own development. That is true equality. When all the chains left by colonialist legacies are broken away and thrown away forever.

Mandela was great for one reason among many reasons. He never had an enchained mind. Even when he was put behind bars for 27 years. His mind was never in chains. Something that is hard to do but absolutely necessary.

Worshipping the group that oppresses you is for chained minds.

[wat0n]

@Tainari88 no one is oppressing Black people in South Africa.

It is the ANC which has been in charge for almost 30 years now, and it has grown corrupt and complacent. Race baiting won't change that.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 no one is oppressing Black people in South Africa.

It is the ANC which has been in charge for almost 30 years now, and it has grown corrupt and complacent. Race baiting won't change that.

You have no real understanding of what that entire experience is like. Why don't you get it? Vendido eres all the way.

Here is a video:

What is whiteness in South Africa?

The reality is that no government can make the Africans in South Africa create a consciousness that is rooted in themselves. Belief in their own capacity and be courageous in solving problems.

You make excuses for the failures of the US government in giving justice to many in Latin America. And you are full of shit mostly. You think I do not know?

I agree with that white South African woman LEFTIST. The radical. I doubt you can understand what she is talking about.

No tienes la capacidad de hacerlo. because you so invested in living the materialism shit that you love. I have very little in common with you Wat0n. I have far more in common ideologically with the White Woman South African who speaks about what the Black South Africans are doing. Why ANC has failed is explained by her. Did you listen to that Wat0n or are you spouting shit without listening to what I post on here?

If you are too lazy to do the homework....just bow out of the thread eh?

[wat0n]

@Tainari88 I agree we have little in common.

For example, I judge governments by their actual results while you judge them by their stated intentions as if politicians don't lie and power doesn't corrupt regardless of ideology.

I highly value individual responsibility (including for whatever misfortune I may have to deal with, even if it's not my fault, as I am also responsible for lifting myself up), while you deflect it by appealing to some ridiculous vague notion of collective responsibility where people are held to be responsible for whatever their grandparents or even great-grandparents did.

I can accept others may have a different outlook on life and don't lecture them on how to live theirs while you have the arrogance of telling others how to live their lives or what values to hold, to then act surprised and outraged when the vast majority simply decides to ignore you just as it ignores those preachers who go to the street with megaphones to share their gospel.

As a result, you prefer race baiting over holding those who have been in power for decades accountable for their performance now and you do so while pretending not be kissing some asses, even worse, asses you'll never have access to

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 I agree we have little in common.

For example, I judge governments by their actual results while you judge them by their stated intentions as if politicians don't lie and power doesn't corrupt regardless of ideology.

I highly value individual responsibility (including for whatever misfortune I may have to deal with, even if it's not my fault, as I am also responsible for lifting myself up), while you deflect it by appealing to some ridiculous vague notion of collective responsibility where people are held to be responsible for whatever their grandparents or even great-grandparents did.

I can accept others may have a different outlook on life and don't lecture them on how to live theirs while you have the arrogance of telling others how to live their lives or what values to hold, to then act surprised and outraged when the vast majority simply decides to ignore you just as it ignores those preachers who go to the street with megaphones to share their gospel.

As a result, you prefer race baiting over holding those who have been in power for decades accountable for their performance now and you do so while pretending not be kissing some asses, even worse, asses you'll never have access to

No, you lie your ass off because you are too lazy to study history. Do you want me to cite the many times that you lie about me and make up shit because you are too lazy to actually read what the concept being discussed is about?

No. You do not do that. You spout shit you have been indoctrinated with because when you are presented with an argument that is solid and factual and contradicts your ideas you then waffle and throw out a lie. Like you just did.

ANC fails because of what the South African woman with the red beret in the video states. I agree with her argument. Do you have a counterargument about the ANC or you don't? Without making shit up about what I believe or not about a specific government. Unlike you, I do not believe in constructed social differences like race-baiting. I frankly do not know what fucking race you are and could care less Wat0n. What I care about is if you have a countering argument to discuss citing that woman radical leftist that if you have not noticed yet, showed up in the original video discussing race relations and the ANC countering the leader of the Red October movement who is Sunnette.

What she says about the problem with the ANC who she initially supported and no longer supports is PROFOUND and interesting. But you being the superficial analyzer and wanting to win an argument without doing the work required like the typical lightweight that you are.....tries to blow smoke balls to deflect. Why? Because that is your modus operandi with you.

Get with the program Chicago man. Ponte las pilas o lárgate si no puedes argumentar con inteligencia lo que dijo la Mujer escritora comentarista política sudafricana blanca.

That woman is super intelligent. And she even left that Black nationalist from the USA with his mouth hanging open in admiration. Lol. Did you notice that? No. You can't win an argument unless you can keep track of what they are talking about.

Race baiting is a bunch of right wing dumbell buzz words from the super stupid in the Republican party. It has no place in this debate. At all.

[wat0n]

@Tainari88 you don't know what race is but speak of concepts like whiteness?

You aren't fooling anyone here.

As to why does the ANC fail, it seems they're just following the age old book of ruling through clientelism. It's not new, ironically the Romans practiced it so it's quite universal, but they seem to be taking it to a particularly aberrant level by thinking they can do whatever they want. Maybe that's a legacy of Apartheid, too, insofar the history of Apartheid seemingly gave them a monopoly on morality since they were the ones who managed to end it. But does that excuse corruption and outright incompetence decades after Apartheid ended and several years after Mandela died? No.

Now the remaining question is, who will South Africans elect once the ANC is finally out?

[Rich]

@JohnRawls how does a nation that had apartheid for hundreds of years and excluded the majority of a nation for years and used violence to stay in power!

Its questionable whether South Africans comprise a nation even now, the South African nation has certainly not existed for hundreds of yours. Arguably the first African entity that could be called a nation in South Africa was the Zulu empire, a well oiled terror machine if ever there was one. These so called Black South Africans are actually colonialist genocidal Bantu occupiers that exterminated most of the existing population.

There is only a South African nation now because of Europeans. The modern nations with their modern education systems pouring out social science students whining about the evils of White racism and white Colonialism owe their existence to Europeans. Look at those meetings, the buildings they take place in, the modern chairs which people are sitting upon, the microphones their voices are recorded on, the cameras, even the language they are speaking. Everything is owed to the Europeans.

Human rights, due process, equality, anti racism it all comes from European culture and European civilisation.

[Tainari88]

@Tainari88 you don't know what race is but speak of concepts like whiteness?

You aren't fooling anyone here.

As to why does the ANC fail, it seems they're just following the age old book of ruling through clientelism. It's not new, ironically the Romans practiced it so it's quite universal, but they seem to be taking it to a particularly aberrant level by thinking they can do whatever they want. Maybe that's a legacy of Apartheid, too, insofar the history of Apartheid seemingly gave them a monopoly on morality since they were the ones who managed to end it. But does that excuse corruption and outright incompetence decades after Apartheid ended and several years after Mandela died? No.

Now the remaining question is, who will South Africans elect once the ANC is finally out?

Do you seriously think I believe in labels like whiteness and blackness? No, I don't. I use it because it facilitates speaking about divisive issues constructed by people who need to come up with a scheme for taking over some other person's land and making a profit off of superiority theories. You know...the Nazis and their Master Race theories.

The scientists say all of humanity is one species. Homo Sapiens. You take the darkest skinned African in the African continent and you take the opposite sex person who is young and fertile like the other party there and they can be super light skinned maybe some Swede. They reproduce and produce fertile offspring. There it is. The proof that they are the same group. One species. All compatible. It is not a dead end. Genetically it is open and not a dead end like a Tiger mating a Lion would be. The Liger can not reproduce. The end of that relationship.

So all of us humans are the same species. If you are a scientist you accept that Wat0n. So why do the Afrikaaners have to come up with laws for centuries to exclude a lot of people they excluded? Where is the reasoning there? It is very similar to why they made Black slaves in the South of the USA property.

They needed to exploit them. You got to justify it by saying you are superior to those people and they are destined to fail. They are destined to be who they are. It is the white watch tower she is talking about.

Then you got the Black Nationalist from the USA that told her, there are black people who help the white racists oppress their own people in order to survive and get benefits from the system that they believe will never change and will never be different. They need to look out for their own interests. The political black class of upper crust individuals.

I see a connection between that mentality and the capos from the Nazi concentration camps from WWII.

There were Jews collaborating with the SS and the Gestapo and the German Reich....why? For the same reason the Black sellouts did that in South Africa. To get comforts and privileges.

You think oh, all that hundreds of years of apartheid and so on just is magically transformed into equality, and competence and knowing how to liberate that society. You are really superficial in thought. None of that process is easy.

Again, why do you think I put in the newly liberated US history? After the Revolutionary war? Because the truth is the USA was still under threat into the first two decades of the 19th century by a takeover by England. England has documents that they almost intervened on behalf of the confederacy in order to regain control of the USA. They sat it out due to their own issues in Europe at the time. But they were ready to intervene again in the USA's civil war. Mainly due to the industrialists wanting to expand US hegemony and the Industrial Revolution and compete with the European colonial powers for resources and control of raw materials and so on....it is very logical.

She said something very simple. South Africa is a black country now. Because it gained the vote of the majority of its people. The reason she gives for why the ANC has failed is very clean and well thought out. They need to transform themselves and not be worried anymore about white approvals because white people never will give up the superiority syndrome. They only know how to cope with Black people and how they have been taught their whole lives. Very similar to the white interviewer of the black slave video that I put in there. Why did I put that in there Wat0n? Because he kept saying I am a different white man, I believe you have the right to an education and a right to this or that. The slave said, [Sonny, you still got the problem.} The slave said I was born with equality which is my right as a human being. Same as you. But if you use the system, the cops, the economy, and everything else to deprive me of my rights....for that equality then I can't realize it.

What does that mean? That humanity fails at equality in the act of denying what is obvious to nature. What is obvious in nature? That we are all one species. Because a Black African can go and mate with a white Scandinavian and produce fertile offspring. Nature does not say they are too different to form a new code and a new life. On the contrary, it is creating something new and also something shared. It is successful. Life and the survival of the fittest. It is all about adaptation. In genetic studies people have alleles and recessive genes and dominant genes. But what it fascinating is that mutation of spontaneity. It reacts to what is selected for or against in any given physical environment. We are symbiotically reacting all the time to each other, to nature and to the laws of physics and genetic codes, diet and habits and learned and adapted habit formations. It all is complex. In the end....it is about transformation. Being able to take what is known and make something beyond what it known over time. That is what evolution encompasses. That includes social organization and economic organizations of society. You can't transform them when they keep being stuck in a mode of thinking that is not about freedom and free agency and not worrying anymore about approvals. The slaves were as they say in the video....turned loose, let out after the American civil war. They did not know how to read or write, or how to make decisions or be true to their own path or decisions, they spend centuries following dictates of the ones with more power over their lives...than they had....yet they were always powerful. Mandela's most famous quote...

Go to 2:18 in the video.

Lol. Mandela quote.

Nelson Mandela was right about human beings.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us.

That is the reality. For all of us. But you got to stop the self interest bullshit and serve without wanting to think that selfishness is the way you gain something in this world. It is actually the opposite. Always. And that is what all governments have to be....if they want success. That is lasting. Do not serve some small powerful group. Serve the society as a whole and make it shine.

So we are all obligated to transform ourselves and deal with the lack of understanding and the lack of acceptance that denying others life, liberty, and equality because of the systems we choose to follow whether it is capitalism, authoritarian fascism, or racist apartheid laws created to perpetuate colonial chains in other people is all just FALSE. Our real obligation is in self-transformation and not make excuses for what it means to be human in this world.

You got to allow all of us freedom to be the best human being we can be. And that means not being an advocate of class systems or capitalism either. Because the core of capitalism is about inequality. If you don't get that? Nothing left to discuss.

[Pants-of-dog]

There are others like Ramaphosa for example who is more directly ANC and important:



Full: https://www.news24.com/fin24/ramaphosa- ... r-20181213

Apartheid is not here anymore and I don't think that it is fair to blame white south africans after 25 years of your own rule for people not getting a job after education is done on whites for some reason. Mostly as I understand, the problem is on a local level though.

The article seems to say that Apartheid left a legacy of systemic problems that are still excluding non-whites.

It also seems to say that the white people who inherited power from the elite during the Apartheid era are not really doing much to change things, which makes sense. People who became powerful because of the status quo are reluctant to change that status quo.

And it also makes sense that educated non-whites are annoyed at this lack of action.

[Tainari88]

Its questionable whether South Africans comprise a nation even now, the South African nation has certainly not existed for hundreds of yours. Arguably the first African entity that could be called a nation in South Africa was the Zulu empire, a well oiled terror machine if ever there was one. These so called Black South Africans are actually colonialist genocidal Bantu occupiers that exterminated most of the existing population.

There is only a South African nation now because of Europeans. The modern nations with their modern education systems pouring out social science students whining about the evils of White racism and white Colonialism owe their existence to Europeans. Look at those meetings, the buildings they take place in, the modern chairs which people are sitting upon, the microphones their voices are recorded on, the cameras, even the language they are speaking. Everything is owed to the Europeans.

Human rights, due process, equality, anti racism it all comes from European culture and European civilisation.

No Rich civilization is not about chairs, and due process and all that shit. Why? Because being civilized is really quite simple.

Don't think that another human being who is living a different life experience than you are, who has successfully lived in their own land for millennia and who adapted to living there in a long long struggle for survival has the same human codes as you do. The supposedly superior fucked up racist human being who thinks the Europeans got the answers to all of humanity. Lol. No, they came looking for mines and diamonds, gold and coal, and every resource African lands had...in order to be greedy and barbaric because instead of sharing all the spoils with the working class in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, they just wasted all that money from the supposed savage civilizations of India, and China and Southern Africa and so on.....causing misery and hardship and strife. Dividing and conquering, putting out a bunch of shit about don't go back to your lands.

That is old and worn Rich. Divide and conquer. The Afrikaaners as the video of some young Afrikaaner woman said in her video....the old Dutch settlers all would rather walk barefoot over rough land cutting their feet than be ruled by the British. And that was a fellow European settler. Why would they think that? because the British imperial minded were barbarian in the worst way. Threats of violence, and sacking the land and creating dissent. Where is the teachings that are superior? People who know how to love, give up greed, and serve to help and be a part of something BETTER for all. For children, for women and for the poor and the downtrodden and the ones struggling thinking they are not powerful. When Mandela was right. We fear just how powerful all of us actually are....

If you believe in my inferiority Rich? I won't agree with you. Lol. I do believe we are equals. If you do not agree? Then you got a problem. Here is Toni Morrison's response to racist people who think they are superior and so is their culture over the culture of the savages and the primitive and the inhuman. Because that is what they do....they want to make the others inhuman. Because admitting that the greed and the violence and lack of respect they display to others with their actions of colonization is too much for them to admit. The fear is the core of their cruelty. Leave me out of it. That is what I say to you. You got the problem. A serious one. Leave me out of it. You are bereft. Distorted by the psyche. It is like it is a profound neurosis and it feels crazy and it is crazy. It is problematic Rich. You got a problem.

If you can only feel tall if all the others are on their knees you got a very serious problem Rich. It is really about your own internal failures. It has nothing to do with me. It never did. All racism is really about failures to be secure within your own identity. They fail at that because they use barbarism to take control. It is not civilization they bring. It is conflict, misery, and poverty and suffering. The solution is doing what Mandela stated. Honor the light inside yourself Rich. Believe you can share it with the ones out there you love. Believe in that. And act on it.

[Puffer Fish]

The article seems to say that Apartheid left a legacy of systemic problems that are still excluding non-whites.

That's what the article says. Whether that claim or interpretation is true is another matter.
You see, a claim like that isn't an indisputable fact; it's an interpretation of the facts (and a somewhat questionable one at that). You seem to have trouble telling the difference between the two.

It also seems to say that the white people who inherited power from the elite during the Apartheid era are not really doing much to change things, which makes sense. People who became powerful because of the status quo are reluctant to change that status quo.

There's another perspective on this, and that is that those now in power (the ANC) have taken things too far in the opposite direction and passed many unfair laws/policies.
Some in SA even say whites are a discriminated against minority group now.

[wat0n]

Do you seriously think I believe in labels like whiteness and blackness? No, I don't. I use it because it facilitates speaking about divisive issues constructed by people who need to come up with a scheme for taking over some other person's land and making a profit off of superiority theories. You know...the Nazis and their Master Race theories.

The scientists say all of humanity is one species. Homo Sapiens. You take the darkest skinned African in the African continent and you take the opposite sex person who is young and fertile like the other party there and they can be super light skinned maybe some Swede. They reproduce and produce fertile offspring. There it is. The proof that they are the same group. One species. All compatible. It is not a dead end. Genetically it is open and not a dead end like a Tiger mating a Lion would be. The Liger can not reproduce. The end of that relationship.

So all of us humans are the same species. If you are a scientist you accept that Wat0n. So why do the Afrikaaners have to come up with laws for centuries to exclude a lot of people they excluded? Where is the reasoning there? It is very similar to why they made Black slaves in the South of the USA property.

They needed to exploit them. You got to justify it by saying you are superior to those people and they are destined to fail. They are destined to be who they are. It is the white watch tower she is talking about.

Then you got the Black Nationalist from the USA that told her, there are black people who help the white racists oppress their own people in order to survive and get benefits from the system that they believe will never change and will never be different. They need to look out for their own interests. The political black class of upper crust individuals.

I see a connection between that mentality and the capos from the Nazi concentration camps from WWII.

There were Jews collaborating with the SS and the Gestapo and the German Reich....why? For the same reason the Black sellouts did that in South Africa. To get comforts and privileges.

You think oh, all that hundreds of years of apartheid and so on just is magically transformed into equality, and competence and knowing how to liberate that society. You are really superficial in thought. None of that process is easy.

Again, why do you think I put in the newly liberated US history? After the Revolutionary war? Because the truth is the USA was still under threat into the first two decades of the 19th century by a takeover by England. England has documents that they almost intervened on behalf of the confederacy in order to regain control of the USA. They sat it out due to their own issues in Europe at the time. But they were ready to intervene again in the USA's civil war. Mainly due to the industrialists wanting to expand US hegemony and the Industrial Revolution and compete with the European colonial powers for resources and control of raw materials and so on....it is very logical.

She said something very simple. South Africa is a black country now. Because it gained the vote of the majority of its people. The reason she gives for why the ANC has failed is very clean and well thought out. They need to transform themselves and not be worried anymore about white approvals because white people never will give up the superiority syndrome. They only know how to cope with Black people and how they have been taught their whole lives. Very similar to the white interviewer of the black slave video that I put in there. Why did I put that in there Wat0n? Because he kept saying I am a different white man, I believe you have the right to an education and a right to this or that. The slave said, [Sonny, you still got the problem.} The slave said I was born with equality which is my right as a human being. Same as you. But if you use the system, the cops, the economy, and everything else to deprive me of my rights....for that equality then I can't realize it.

What does that mean? That humanity fails at equality in the act of denying what is obvious to nature. What is obvious in nature? That we are all one species. Because a Black African can go and mate with a white Scandinavian and produce fertile offspring. Nature does not say they are too different to form a new code and a new life. On the contrary, it is creating something new and also something shared. It is successful. Life and the survival of the fittest. It is all about adaptation. In genetic studies people have alleles and recessive genes and dominant genes. But what it fascinating is that mutation of spontaneity. It reacts to what is selected for or against in any given physical environment. We are symbiotically reacting all the time to each other, to nature and to the laws of physics and genetic codes, diet and habits and learned and adapted habit formations. It all is complex. In the end....it is about transformation. Being able to take what is known and make something beyond what it known over time. That is what evolution encompasses. That includes social organization and economic organizations of society. You can't transform them when they keep being stuck in a mode of thinking that is not about freedom and free agency and not worrying anymore about approvals. The slaves were as they say in the video....turned loose, let out after the American civil war. They did not know how to read or write, or how to make decisions or be true to their own path or decisions, they spend centuries following dictates of the ones with more power over their lives...than they had....yet they were always powerful. Mandela's most famous quote...

Go to 2:18 in the video.

Lol. Mandela quote.

Nelson Mandela was right about human beings.



That is the reality. For all of us. But you got to stop the self interest bullshit and serve without wanting to think that selfishness is the way you gain something in this world. It is actually the opposite. Always. And that is what all governments have to be....if they want success. That is lasting. Do not serve some small powerful group. Serve the society as a whole and make it shine.

So we are all obligated to transform ourselves and deal with the lack of understanding and the lack of acceptance that denying others life, liberty, and equality because of the systems we choose to follow whether it is capitalism, authoritarian fascism, or racist apartheid laws created to perpetuate colonial chains in other people is all just FALSE. Our real obligation is in self-transformation and not make excuses for what it means to be human in this world.

You got to allow all of us freedom to be the best human being we can be. And that means not being an advocate of class systems or capitalism either. Because the core of capitalism is about inequality. If you don't get that? Nothing left to discuss.

Care to explain exactly how is an ANC member who's taking bribes or stealing from the government owned electricity company, which then leads to poor service to South African households, helping the cause of equality in South Africa?

Can that type of government solve any of the problems facing the country?

Why are most South Africans, including Black South Africans, voting for them anyway? I hope you won't liken them to Jews who collaborated with the Nazis thinking that could spare them, their families or their communities from extermination. That is an absurd and offensive analogy.

Oh, and "whiteness" is not a scientific concept. It is an ideological one, coming from the postmodern crap that believes objectivity doesn't exist and that science itself is useless.

[Pants-of-dog]

That's what the article says. Whether that claim or interpretation is true is another matter.
You see, a claim like that isn't an indisputable fact; it's an interpretation of the facts (and a somewhat questionable one at that). You seem to have trouble telling the difference between the two.


There's another perspective on this, and that is that those now in power (the ANC) have taken things too far in the opposite direction and passed many unfair laws/policies.
Some in SA even say whites are a discriminated against minority group now.

I see no reason to doubt the existence of systemic racism in SA.

SA society is still built to reward whiteness.

[ckaihatsu]

Ivan the Terrible and the Tsars were all oligarchical Imperialists in the past. Putin is not a far left man. He never has been. He is a far right dude. That is why Trump loved that asshole. Putin wants the old Soviet Union back but he can't accept that the old dissolved republics are all gone. Maybe he fears the Western nations who are into capital. But he should have concentrated on his own nation's inequalities and the people in Russia who are not doing well at all. That would have kept him busy for the rest of his life. But no....he thinks he can do the same shit that the US does in Latin America. Go in there and take it over so you can expand and so on.

Putin is a far right fascist Chris. No doubt about that. I don't care why he is. He is a far right Fascist.

Certainly I didn't say, *or imply*, that Putin should be supported.

No contention otherwise.

[ckaihatsu]

I do not fully subscribe to the idea of blaming imperialism/colonialism for every woe of every country which has been colonized. But there is a certain timeframe where that can be used. I usually decide it on country by country basis, for SA I find it an acceptable argument since apartheid ended 25 years ago which is relatively close.

Formerly-colonized countries become fully 'healed' in just *one* generation, according to you -- ?

By that point, *what* -- a 'level-playing field', and then we can just ignore *class interests* at that point, for some reason -- ?

Anything to say about *Sri Lanka* right now, while you still have the sun shining brightly -- ?

As of the early 2020s, the debt-laden country is undergoing an economic crisis where locals are experiencing months of shortages of food, fuel and electricity. Inflation has peaked to 57% according to official data.[57] In June 2022, Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe declared in parliament the collapse of the Sri Lankan economy, leaving it unable to pay for essentials.[84]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_o ... war_period

[wat0n]

I see no reason to doubt the existence of systemic racism in SA.

SA society is still built to reward whiteness.

What's exactly "rewarding whiteness"?