[Red_Bull]

Should South Africa annex Lesotho? Looking at the situation geographically, it makes sense that this area should belong to South Africa. Given how Lesotho is economically dependent on South Africa, it seems they have more to gain then lose by being annexed. One might say no because South Africa has terrible unemployment, crime, and income inequality. What do you think?

Also, would South African's even welcome an annexation of Lesotho? According to this article Lesotho is being torn apart by HIV.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... uth-africa

[fuser]

Never heard of this country, until now. Is there any sort of serious antagonism between these two countries? If not, I don't see any problem with this proposal.

[Sithsaber]

Lesotho is dirt poor and has little of value for S Africa, which itself is about to go through even more upheaval. Ignoring annexation in the name of African solidarity and pan nationalism, than no.

[Smertios]

No. It would make more sense if Free State was annexed by Lesotho, considering they are the Sotho region of South Africa:


I really don't like the make up of African countries. Borders were drawn by colonists, and it simply divided peoples into different countries. The Sotho people is only one people, no matter whether they are in Free State or in Lesotho. And the King of Lesotho is the true leader of the Sotho people. It's simple as that...

According to this article Lesotho is being torn apart by HIV.

All of Africa is, kind of...

[Swensk]

I have to agree with smertios. In my view, all african borders should be redrawn to match the ethnic divides.

[Fasces]

To what extent? That's all well and good in theory, but many of these ethnic communities are unsustainable as independent powers. Nationality, not ethnicity, should be the basis of states, and while ethnicity is a major component of nationality, it is not the only one nor final measure.

[Swensk]

Yes, there are indeed many small ethnicities that are too weak to survive on their own. But I think that answer to that is to have some smaller groups merge into bigger entities but being very decentralised and making sure that each nation still maintains it's uniqueness and much autonomy, but that there are a very close co operation in the fields of economy and defense, and others.

[Varax]

Yes, less tiny mostly irrelevant states is good. Under such circumstances they're not really all that independent anyway, and I don’t care for the notion that every ethnicity should have its own state no matter how powerless in practice the state actually is. So might as well annex them.

[Smertios]

To what extent? That's all well and good in theory, but many of these ethnic communities are unsustainable as independent powers. Nationality, not ethnicity, should be the basis of states, and while ethnicity is a major component of nationality, it is not the only one nor final measure.

I would agree that it would be unsustainable for smaller groups, but we are talking about the Sotho here. There are 4 million of them. About the same as Norwegians. Lesotho and Free State, together, have about 160,000 km² of area. That's more than Greece. And sure, their GDP per capita and HDI aren't good, but they are good enough, considering the continental average. Their economy is not diversified and highly based on agriculture and mining, but, once again, thats the situation in the whole country and continent.

South Africa has clear ethnic limits within its borders:


The Cape region is essentially Coloured, and Afrikaans-speaking. KwaZulu-Natal is a Zulu region, home to most of the 11 million Zulus there are. Eastern Cape is essentially a Xhosa region. There are about 8 million of them. Free State is Sotho, like I said before. The North West province, is a Tswana region, and could be easily integrated into Botswana. There are 4 million Tswanas in South Africa only. And most of the population of Botswana belongs to that group as well. Limpopo is a Northern Sotho region, quite homogeneous as well. Mpumalanga is a mess, but it could be divided between the Swazi (who also have Swaziland) and kwaZulu. And Gauteng is an even greater mess. Maybe it could be divided between Limpopo, kwaZulu, Lesotho and Botswana.

Here is a linguistic map of Gauteng:


I think this division could work quite well for South Africa. Other groups are small minorities, and could easily be integrated into one of these 7 nations.

But obviously, this is my opinion of what is best for them. This matter is ultimately up to the South African people to decide.

[Ter]

The first resolution of the Organisation of African Unity was that no borders will be re-drawn as it would open a box of pandora that cannot be closed again. That OAU organisation is celebrating its 50th birthday this week.

[Smertios]

The first resolution of the Organisation of African Unity was that no borders will be re-drawn as it would open a box of pandora that cannot be closed again. That OAU organisation is celebrating its 50th birthday this week.

It's up to the people to decide that, not an organization of dictators. The OAU no longer exists, by the way. :P It was replaced by the African Union in 2002.

Also, borders have changed. Look at South Sudan, for example.