EU-BREXIT - Page 75 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By albionfagan
#14965534
Rees-Mogg is a busted flush, a man of the back benches and that's where he will ultimately remain.

As for Brexit, I really don't know where it's going now. A no deal is a horrific prospect but still a minute one, it looks like this sham of a deal might just get through. I'm not in favour of a second referendum, as much as I didn't want us to leave the EU, and am very much in agreement with Peter Hitchens in that the whole thing has been a complete abdication of political responsibility by a corrupted political class. A referendum got us in this mess and a second one will not help matters.
By B0ycey
#14965538
Rees Moog is more like Judas than Caesar. Although really he is not much of a player in the clusterfuck that is going down at Westminster actually. The party who holds all the cards down there is the DUP and they are throwing warning shots at May and she ain't listening. Being they are in control of who is in power or whether we have another general election May needs to either listen to them or play the wildcard. EUREF2. This is the only real option of avoiding "No Deal" now. But if May wants to take this deal to Westminster to get destroyed the DUP will just vote down everything the Conservatives do until May quits as they don't believe she has stood by her word.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14965594
Rugoz wrote:For the EU to become functional, it must move towards majority voting. But there's no European nationalism to support it. The EU is a project by the elites. Whenever there's been popular resistance, it was either ignored or resolved by pandering to the electorate of the country that dared to hold a referendum.



Nonsense -

From it's inception, the EC had as it's pre-amble, the ever closer political & social union of the founder members.

It was Maastricht that began the rapid advancement to political union that led to The Treaty of the European Union as a single entity comprised of the member states.
There always was 'majority voting', with the exception of matters of 'national interest'.

In the case of Irish resistance to joining the E.U, the Irish were told by them to 'think again', which they did by having a second referendum that said 'YES' to entry into the E.U.

Originally, the EC was set up with little common interest, mainly economic, commercial, with no common defence or freedom of movement, just the right to 'WORK' in the then Common Market, not to settle, claim benefits, or settle permanently.
It is rapidly advancing to the super-state as one single entity, with a common, legal, fiscal, defence structure that makes the original body that we entered into, a very different kettle of fish, for which we the people have never had the opportunity, except under WILSON, to decide if that is what we want.

The continuation of such a state depends on the consent of the people of all the countries within, the democratic functioning of the E.U is authoritarian, overbearing & bureaucratic with little active consent having avenues to express itself.

Theresa MAY is close to being treasonous in signing a withdrawal agreement, ceding sovereignty to the E.U, that leaves the U.K as a subordinate state in perpetuity & paying vast sums to remain as a vassal state.

We will have loss of sovereignty, as we will be subjugated to E.U(ECJ) law through that agreement, that is an unequal deal that creates a sovereignty loss which manifest itself through arbitrary decisions in the ECJ.

Just because she says that it's a 'political', not 'legal' agreement on the future arrangements in E.U-UK relationship, there is bound to be betrayal relating to Ireland & Gibraltar within it's covers as well as commitments with legal connotations being enforceable.

EU law always takes primacy over 'Statute', the withdrawal agreement is a legal document enforceable in the ECJ, breaches of which could cost the U.K untold £ BILLIONS in penalties & make no mistake there will be cases arising that will make us liable.

We will have to obey every declaration from the Council of Europe or Community law as applying to the E.U nations.

That 'Treaty' will have to continue until consent is withdrawn either mutually, or unilaterally in the future with political consequences due to Theresa MAY.
Last edited by Nonsense on 21 Nov 2018 23:20, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By colliric
#14965598
Beren wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au1QR_vzDPA

Did you notice how aristocratically the leader of the ultimate populist revolution can drink his tea? :lol:


?

All Brits drink shitloads of tea everyday(they invented the fucken "tea break").... And they know how to drink the shit out of it "Properly dammit"(with the cup and plate)!

That actually helped him look in touch with the common man & woman. From his specific country. "Oh he drinks a good cuppa tea, and he holds everything properly, good!"

If you don't know how to hold a cuppa tea in one hand and a plate in the other, you must not be British dammit. Invented that shit.

Lol.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14965792
colliric wrote:?

All Brits drink shitloads of tea everyday(they invented the fucken "tea break").... And they know how to drink the shit out of it "Properly dammit"(with the cup and plate)!

That actually helped him look in touch with the common man & woman. From his specific country. "Oh he drinks a good cuppa tea, and he holds everything properly, good!"

If you don't know how to hold a cuppa tea in one hand and a plate in the other, you must not be British dammit. Invented that shit.

Lol.



Nonsense -

I thought that to be 'British' & 'working class' you had to decant the tea from the cup to the saucer, hold it to your mouth & slurp like a pig....Oh! wait a minute, that's for the chaps around the corner in Acacia Avenue, tis a good job that I am Deaf, lol . :eh: :hmm: :roll: :p :lol:
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14965877
After a few days reading and thinking on the WA, there's been nothing to change my mind. It's a disgrace and no self-respecting MP who has the best interest of the UK in mind should even consider voting for it. It doesn't help that Theresa May is completely incoherent in her messages to opponents of her "deal", switching between Brexit will not happen at all and Brexit might be delayed and Britain will definitely leave in March 2019. It seems pretty clear now that she and her advisers came to an understanding with the EU behind the back of those who were supposed to be in charge of the negotiations. With the new Brexit Secretary there is at least no such pretense, but it looks like in practice this position has always been like it is now. She's definitely got to go.

The Tories will have to get over their fear of Corbyn and ultimately will have to muster the courage to walk away from the negotiations without a deal. It boggles the mind that people don't realise that the very fact that the EU is prepared to accept the WA means that they are terrified of the UK becoming truly independent. And it's not only about the negative perception of a member state voluntarily leaving the union but clearly also about the UK's competitiveness outside the EU.

This reminds me of the blunder (to put it charitably) that was the Foreign Office's actions and communication with Argentina before the Falkland's war. Just like then, a major problem seems to be a fatalist mindset that is incapable of imagining a different future path, and too many MPs and high ranking civil servants have fallen victim to it. This is not a new phenomenon, but it is now more salient because it has openly pitted them against a referendum decision.

I know I'm repeating myself, but the narrowing of acceptable or allowable choices is a real and far-reaching problem with respect to democratic decision making. Brexit is truly a litmus test on whether it is still possible for a country to make a decision that deviates, if only slightly, from the liberal globalist consensus. Britain better live up to its reputation.
User avatar
By Albert
#14965880
EU officials are stuck in their own mental prison perhaps May bought into it. They might have scared her with their favorite bogey man of return to nationalism and reincarnation of Hitler himself. And EU being the only salvation for humanity.

Think of the future generations May, think what your grandchildren will say! Living in closed society not knowing the wonders of gay marriage and refugees from middle east that blow us up! The horrible future!

Edit: How did May mess up this deal so badly I can not comprehend. She negotiated not a withdrawal agreement but an annexation. Perhaps this is purposeful betrayal all along. The woman has to go.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/may ... l-verdict/
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14965900
Albert wrote:EU officials are stuck in their own mental prison perhaps May bought into it. They might have scared her with their favorite bogey man of return to nationalism and reincarnation of Hitler himself. And EU being the only salvation for humanity.

Think of the future generations May, think what your grandchildren will say! Living in closed society not knowing the wonders of gay marriage and refugees from middle east that blow us up! The horrible future!

Edit: How did May mess up this deal so badly I can not comprehend. She negotiated not a withdrawal agreement but an annexation. Perhaps this is purposeful betrayal all along. The woman has to go.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/may ... l-verdict/


Because there is no better alternative to the Eu ? May be it is that simple ? :eh:
User avatar
By Albert
#14965901
Yes of coarse there is no better alternative to the EU, gay marriage and endless flood of middle eastern/African migrants. Plus relinquishing your sovereignty to a point where May negotiated a deal where in small letters it pretty much becomes an annexation by EU. What a clown. I simply have no words.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#14965903
Albert wrote:Yes of coarse there is no better alternative to the EU, gay marriage and endless flood of middle eastern/African migrants. Plus relinquishing your sovereignty to a point where May negotiated a deal where in small letters it pretty much becomes an annexation by EU. What a clown. I simply have no words.

Never said EU is perfect. But it still better than the alternatives. Gay marriage? What is wrong with it. It is not like gays interfere with everyday life of heterosexuals. The only thing I mind about lgbt culture are gay parades that can go over the top but otherwise it is not like they get in your way Albert. The immigration situation requires reform which most understand by now within the EU. As for may sighning up to annexation - well what else is she supposed to do? She understands that there are real life economic, cultural and societal consequences that will need to be paid (projekt fear turns to reality to make it simpler for you) On top of that there is a real chance for Uk to break apart because of this, so can you blame her for choosing the current deal over a pure hardcore raw Brexit.
User avatar
By Beren
#14965905
colliric wrote:If you don't know how to hold a cuppa tea in one hand and a plate in the other, you must not be British dammit. Invented that shit.

It's not that he knew how to do it, it's the way he did it, for god's sake.

That actually helped him look in touch with the common man & woman.

Sure, that's why the report started with it. They wanted the common people to identify with him before they bash him. :lol:
User avatar
By Heisenberg
#14965910
colliric wrote:That actually helped him look in touch with the common man & woman. From his specific country. "Oh he drinks a good cuppa tea, and he holds everything properly, good!"

You haven't interacted with many British people in real life, have you colliric? :lol:
By Rich
#14965918
Nigel Farage though his disgusting attack on Tommy Robinson, has just exposed himself as the right-wing gate keeper for mass immigration and Sharia law that some of us have always known he was. The original Brexiteers were never concerned with saving sovereignty but destroying it. They want to slash rich peoples taxes, slash regulations and leave the European peoples divided and powerless in the face of the big multinational corporations.
User avatar
By colliric
#14965919
Heisenberg wrote:You haven't interacted with many British people in real life, have you colliric? :lol:


Yes I have.... I live in fucken Australia.... Brits, Scotts and Irish ex-pats everywhere.

When gallant Cook from Albion sailed,
To trace wide oceans o'er,
True British courage bore him on,
Till he landed on our shore,
Then here he raised Old England's flag,
The standard of the brave;
With all her faults we love her still,
"Brittannia rules the wave!"
Spoiler: show
in joyful strains then let us sing,
"Advance Australia Fair!"



Without checking the spoiler, Guess which song?
User avatar
By Potemkin
#14965928
colliric wrote:Yes I have.... I live in fucken Australia.... Brits, Scotts and Irish ex-pats everywhere.



Without checking the spoiler, Guess which song?

The British class system seems to be a closed book to most Ozzies. Lol.
User avatar
By colliric
#14965933
I am a staunch Monarchist. I don't wish to see Australia ever become a shitty fucken republic. If King Charles forces us to go Republic(by refusing to appoint a Governor General as is his perogative) when he takes over, I'll be upset.

Australia has had no incentive to "fight for freedom" in a defining revolutionary war, we have no beef with England. They never tried to force us to pay taxation without representation. There's no strong reason to become a Republic.
User avatar
By albionfagan
#14965945
Rich wrote:Nigel Farage though his disgusting attack on Tommy Robinson, has just exposed himself as the right-wing gate keeper for mass immigration and Sharia law that some of us have always known he was. The original Brexiteers were never concerned with saving sovereignty but destroying it. They want to slash rich peoples taxes, slash regulations and leave the European peoples divided and powerless in the face of the big multinational corporations.


Tommy Robinson is no better, just an opportunistic arsehole who is riding his popularity to enrich himself.
User avatar
By Albert
#14965991
JohnRawls wrote:Never said EU is perfect. But it still better than the alternatives. Gay marriage? What is wrong with it. It is not like gays interfere with everyday life of heterosexuals. The only thing I mind about lgbt culture are gay parades that can go over the top but otherwise it is not like they get in your way Albert. The immigration situation requires reform which most understand by now within the EU. As for may sighning up to annexation - well what else is she supposed to do? She understands that there are real life economic, cultural and societal consequences that will need to be paid (projekt fear turns to reality to make it simpler for you) On top of that there is a real chance for Uk to break apart because of this, so can you blame her for choosing the current deal over a pure hardcore raw Brexit.
Do nor worry John, one day you will be free from your mental prison.
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