[Siberian Fox]

This is actually very topical at the moment. The draft of the European constitution was published today.

I haven't read the document in full, but from what I have read in the paper this morning it is to be a Europe of nation states, not a federal super-state. In fact, the British delegation insited that the word "federal" was completely removed from the document.

I would not be at all surprised to see us end up that way eventually though. The original founding principle behind the EU was to make a single market, and ultimately the only way to get that is to abolish all national borders.

[Fidel Nico]

Yeah, I'm all for a federal Europe. I think they're just trying to cover the fact up to the electorate, it's inevitable unless the something terrible happens like the euro collasping or a war breaking out and in which case it may have already happened to stop both things happening. I'm sick of the UK only adopting what it wants from the EU, it's time Brussels had more power, but at the same time it should give itself a more public and human face.

Although British Socialists fight against it as a rich mans club - which it ultimately is in my books to - i see it as two steps back for one step forward. You may think I'm a dreamer - but a sucess for socialism on a Europe wide scale which I believe is very possible with the support for such parties in Italy and France could allow us to get a new foothold on the world stage.

[Adrien]

Well i'm also for a concretely united Europe, politically and economically, but i don't know if the actual project of constitution goes in the very right way.

As far as the economy is concerned it's not my kind of thing so i won't pretend to have an advice on it, i let it to the true economists or at least people who have ideas, but from what i read there should be some kind of "united employment policy".

Maybe they should allow people from one country to go work in the country next to them, i think they can already do it but it must be more or less complicated. But the Union shouldn't be able to override one of the national government's decision about employment for example because each national case is different.

There is also this system of "fines" if you are not able to reach some stage of growth or something like that. The fact that they sanction a country is not really a problem to me, if we want a united power we must accept critics, but the fact that may make pay countries that are not economically feeling fine is rather illogical. We should find some other way to sanction.

I also heard yesterday on the radio that the farmers were protesting in france because of the Union's decision about the prices. In fact maybe the Union shouldn't override that much the national government with the economy or impose new rules (the fact the new union laws about food endangered our cheeses irritated us).

To sum up, to me the economic side of the Union should stay at the stage of the Euro (please English friends join ), the financing of the Union's infrastructures themselves (countries could pay a part proportional to their wealth or percentage of population inside the UE), a system of financial aid (countries would contribute to a big reserve of money that would be used in case of disaster or things like that in one country). I think economy is something hard enough to handle on a national scale, so to a Union scale.. If they want to help the countries to interact with each other a new borders policy would be good.

But again i'm not economist, and if it is important to adopt a clear and precise united economic policy then we should try.

Now politically, the first problem of the new system is that the "little" countries would be wiped out of the presidency, losing a way to be heard. If we want a union, we must act like one, or it will never works.

Let's make it work like a country: two assemblies. In the first, each country would have a number of representant proportional to the percentage of the Union's population it represents. In the second one representant for each country. This is to be sure that a country, thanks to its "mass" will not pass bad laws or block good laws.

These deputies will of course be elected directly by the people of each country. They would be changed each time the government of their country changes. We should by the way harmonize the length of all the european states' term and make them start all the same year.

As far as the executive branch is concerned, the function of "president of the Union" is useless. I think a good idea would be a soviet style Council with one representant, one commissar for each country and a chairman chosen at the beginning of each annual session to arbitrate the session. Maybe this guy could be the ceremonial head of state we need.

These commissars would be the direct representants of each national government and would be appointed like a minister by the president/monarch of each country. They would be the link between each goverment and the Union's government if there is a problem or a revendication to make. Executive decisions would be taken thanks to a majority vote or a 2/3 - 3/4 majority vote.

It would suppress the actual meetings like the meeting of all the ministers of agriculture, the meeting of all the ministers of transports, etc.. Now if a decision is to be taken about some agricultural stuff, it will be put on the agenda of the council, each commissar will be the voice of each government, they would end with a proposal of law that they would submit to the vote of the assemblies. The Council would have to meet frequently, the best being every week, to be quick while giving each time one week to every country to react on the past week's discussions.

Foreign Affairs and Defense are the two pillars that link Europe to the rest of the world, so either we create two other dedicated councils, or we give these powers to the existing Council of Commissars. As fars as the army is concerned, we should create a concrete european corp that would be send abroad in case of problem (iraq style) or to help a country to maintain order. Not necessarly loads and loads of men, but something efficient. Countries would again participate according to their representation in the total UE population.

Well pfew, i'm done! I guess it's a bit confused, it's always clearer in your head..

And note that if the Commissars and eventual Foreign Affairs/Defense Commissars are not the heads of state/ministers of each country it's because i want the representant to be able to meet very regularly.

[Adrien]

Another thing: the G8 summit should be abolished and replaced (if they really want to make their big boys summit) by a Europe/USA/Russia/China/Canada/Japan summit (this choice is based on the actual G8 members plus China who is an important nation on a worldwide scale).

[C-Kokos]

There are grave political differences among the countries of the EU however which make a federation scenario to be crossed right out.
The EU interests clash with those of the US, and this is more and more clearly demonstrated in every serious political issue arising involving the above parties.
Now, the overly pro-US gooddoggy policy of the UK has more or less isolated her from important members of the Union, namely France, Germany etc.
If Brittish clings to the same we-are-your-best-friends-US policy, I wouldn't ber surprised if she was kicked out of the Union in the next 20 years and being replaced by Russia. The recent war in Iraq, proved that such a scenario is not very far fetched...

[Krasniy Yastreb]

If the UK is kicked out of the EU, I'm emigrating. There's no way I'm staying to watch the UK turn into Airstrip One.

Maybe this is just UK paranoia, but I fear the EU becoming a dictatorship of France and Germany. the 'two-speed' system will lead to a centralisation of power, creating layers of useless bureaucracy that breed corruption and inefficiency. if this happened the EU would quickly become as bad as the US.

Still, by the time of the next election Blairolini will be out. I am quite sure of that. Then the British people can get their power back.

[Adrien]

Well apparently it's more the british government than the population who is "blindly" following the United States, so we can think that a change will take place in the years to come, maybe even at the next elections.. Who knows!

In general, serious crisis wake the governments/populations up and break this attitude of little dog: in the 30's we were blindly following the UK, but WWII woke us up after (see the reaction: De Gaulle's attitude).

So yes, i think it will change, exclusion is not needed...

I think the first thing the Englishs have to do is to join the Eurozone.

[Illuminat]

Iam all for an united europe! Yeah! And iam also for an united world.

BUT! Iam against the Européan Union. Why? Because its not on OUR terms. Its not on the terms of the working class of europe! No its unite on the terms of the political and economic elite of europe. Its a union by and for the ELITE. Its a unionen by and for CAPITALISTS. Therefor I say no! Smash the whole shit and build a new union, a union built by and for the workingclass of europe, then I will stand possitive.

[Boondock Saint]

Well ... a united europe would just be a mirror image of the united states ... only with alot more historical internal strife.

I wouldnt mind a united europe but then I would want all the states of the EU to lose their membership in the UN and have one voice represent europe as one voice represents the US. Unless of course we give each state in the US a voice ...

As for the UK ... if memory serves me correct their geographical location has always led them to feel somewhat seperate from the mainland. No, I am not saying they are NOT european ... its just they were not effected by many 'european' issues in the past due to being seperated by water.

Again though, I see a united europe having way too many issues due ot internal strife which would all be based on traditional prejudices. The recent comments by that Italian guy are just one example of how such ideas can still make it into the mainstream.

Anyway ... a united europe would just lead to a massive nation that would have to start acting just like the US in order to feed its never satiated hunger.

[Man On The Moon]

If Brittish clings to the same we-are-your-best-friends-US policy, I wouldn't ber surprised if she was kicked out of the Union in the next 20 years and being replaced by Russia. The recent war in Iraq, proved that such a scenario is not very far fetched...

If the UK is ever forcibly removed from the EU (something In my opinion I won't be seeing anytime soon) it would be a massive blow to the economic power and political influence of the union in general. Taking such a radical move, especially once poorer countries such as Poland are admitted would put a heavy strain on other member nations. And without the UK, I agree that theres a chance of a Franco-German "Dictatorship" forming.
I can't see Russia joining, that rather would be rather galling for them to have to submit to the EU for "Membership."

[Delphi]

It could happen. Wasn't it the 1950s Conservative France that blocked the UKs entrance into the common market?