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Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

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By Berkut
#171603
I give up...it's useless to argue with a 12 year old...you don't know what you are talking about.
By Garibaldi
#171854
Berkut wrote:
Garibaldi wrote:Berkut, Russia's army is in shambles. Hate to point this out to you, but with good planning I could conquer siberia single-handedly.

Go ahead...show me that it is "shamble" in details (If you are comparing it to the Soviet military, then I agree, it is shamble)

Can't wait to hear that.


First and foremost, it was a comparison to the Soviet Union. But more than that, you just have to relise Russia is done. Russia can't win the war against Chechnya, you can't control Organized Crime... Those two are failry good indications of how your military situation is. Also, I doubt your navy would be much good. Russia has never been able to use Siberia, and you're locked in on the Baltic sea. You also lack real access to the Black Sea, you're locked at the Dardenelle Straits and the only land you can launch ships from is higly rebellious. You can kiss claiming Navy behind, especially since Britain will always cover our Navy and they're both historically and currently the best in the world.
By Berkut
#171906
Comparing to Soviet military, Russia's forces are ridiculous, definatly.
But, after 15 years of disorder, it is still as modern as US'.

US can't win a war against Iraq and Afganistan,UK can't win against Irland...Does that make their military suck?

Organized crime...did anyone ever controled it? And it's not even a military issue.

Russian submarine fleet is the largest in the world. Don't tell me the subs are rusting, because they are not! Most of the subs are at sea, and several new generation subs are beeing built. Russian aircraft carrier just went trough a modernization and is the largest and most powerful in the world (even though there is only one, it is able to take 2 or 3 US cariers). And, most important of all, Russian Navy has the most powerful weapon - Shkval! I agree, US' Navy is stronger overall, but Russia's Navy is still a big threat to consider (in a conflict).
But, the Navy is probably the weakest branch of the military.

Russia's air defense is the most modern and the best in the world. Russian tanks are among the best, definatly better than American and British ones. Air Force may not be able to compete in terms of quantity, but in terms of quality it sure puts up a good fight!

So, don't fuckin bullshit me with your "bad economy = bad military" crap because it's simply not true.
By glinert
#171948
Worst comes to worst, US, we will not forget to drag you down with us. :p 8) :D :lol:
By betelgeuse
#172113
Berkut wrote:I give up...it's useless to argue with a 12 year old...you don't know what you are talking about.

You seem to sistematically avoid answering my question, Berkut.
By caesar
#172229
glinert wrote:Worst comes to worst, US, we will not forget to drag you down with us. :p 8) :D :lol:

You wish !, probably thy do it alone. :lol: :D :lol:
I wish you a mary cristmas, I wish you a mary cristmas and a happy and good fall.
This song is for Rusia.
Go ! go ! go ! down afcourse. :knife: :lol: :D :evil:
By Napuljun
#172286
Cesear how can you sing such a song when your country is far more down than Russia? :eh:
By Stipe
#172300
It mostly just shows how very little real sympathy there actually is for Russia in most of central europe.
By Berkut
#172312
betelgeuse wrote:
Berkut wrote:I give up...it's useless to argue with a 12 year old...you don't know what you are talking about.

You seem to sistematically avoid answering my question, Berkut.

When the question starts by "If the Soviet Union was so great, how come its gone...", there is nothing to answer, it's just ignorance...

caesar,
Russia will be back again, it will improve, but Romania will always stay in that fuckin hole it is in! You think EU will solve your problems? Eu is going to wipe theur feet on you...but hey, it's your choice right.
By Garibaldi
#172350
Berkut wrote:US can't win a war against Iraq and Afganistan,UK can't win against Irland...Does that make their military suck?

Organized crime...did anyone ever controled it? And it's not even a military issue.

Russian submarine fleet is the largest in the world. Don't tell me the subs are rusting, because they are not! Most of the subs are at sea, and several new generation subs are beeing built. Russian aircraft carrier just went trough a modernization and is the largest and most powerful in the world (even though there is only one, it is able to take 2 or 3 US cariers). And, most important of all, Russian Navy has the most powerful weapon - Shkval! I agree, US' Navy is stronger overall, but Russia's Navy is still a big threat to consider (in a conflict).
But, the Navy is probably the weakest branch of the military.

Russia's air defence is the most modern and the best in the world. Russian tanks are among the best, definatly better than American and British ones. Air Force may not be able to compete in terms of quantity, but in terms of quality it sure puts up a good fight!

So, don't fuckin bullshit me with your "bad economy = bad military" crap because it's simply not true.


First off, a bad economy does generate a bad military. Generally, a bad economy iniates a bad morale, as well as worse means for military training and production. You can not deny this.

Good points on Iraq and Ireland; however, the reason's for these failures are different. America is not using nearly the corect amount of force nor do we have the appropriate amount of people in Iraq, and I don't know what England's deal is. However, I never claimed them to have a good army, just a grand navy.

Organized crime has a lot to do with Russian capabilities. I wouldn't expect it to become completly under control, but when it is as rampant as it is in Russia it is clear Rusia doesn't have the capabilities to stop a man smuggling drugs, let alone The US with it's allies.

I can't speak on your submarines, but I will explain that you're Navy will be confined to the Black sea. The submarines themselves will be ineffective, they'll either be blown to bits by our airforce or destroyed if they try to break the Dardenelles. Also, that Aircraft carrier isn't gona "take down" two or three American Aircraft carriers, it's the planes that do the fighting. Besides, you said it yourself, it's only one.

I won't speak on your air defense, but I know that your Tanks are not the best in the world and Tanks althogether are obsolete. You're have always been designed for power and defense, while America has faster tanks and because of our renovations are now just as powerful and portective, if not more, in a much more advanced design.

And you're Airforce can't do a thing, in terms of quantity or quality. America has very, very good pilots. Not to mention, we have more experience at bombing the hell out of shit.
By Piano Red
#172633
Russian submarine fleet is the largest in the world.


And also one of the crappiest in the world, numbers don't mean much in today's world i'm afraid. A US submarine would whoop a Russian sub any day of the week my friend. :D

Don't tell me the subs are rusting, because they are not! Most of the subs are at sea, and several new generation subs are beeing built.


And none of them would compare to a Seawolf attack sub or even the new Virginia class subs coming out in a few years, so what's your point?

Russian aircraft carrier just went trough a modernization and is the largest and most powerful in the world (even though there is only one, it is able to take 2 or 3 US cariers).


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Omg, you have got be out of your mind if you think a Russian carrier could ever take on a Nimitz my friend. To set things straight the Nimitzs happen and continue to be the largest and most powerful carriers afloat today, they carry alot more aircraft then their russian counterparts, and have far more weaponry at their disposal.

Also did I mention that even excluding the Kitty Hawk, Enterprise, and JFK that there are 9 of them, with another planned for launch in 2008? In my honest opinion sending Russia's sole carrier up against just one Nimitz would be an utter waste of hardware, sending it up against 2 or 3 is overkill coupled with a death wish.

And, most important of all, Russian Navy has the most powerful weapon - Shkval!


You obviously have never heard of the US Navy's High-Speed Undersea Weaponry Project, the US Navy already has a countermeasure against the "squall" i'm afraid. Not that it matters much considering how that torpedo is infamous for it's notoriously bad guidance systems. ;)

I agree, US' Navy is stronger overall, but Russia's Navy is still a big threat to consider (in a conflict).


I'm sorry to break it to you but with the exeption of it's subs the Russian Navy is barely even a "blue-water" navy by today's standards. Barely any new ships or new equipment has rolled out since the collapse of the USSR and the maintainence of it's ships has been even worse. In a conlfict with the US Navy it simply could not compare or make a good accounting of itself and would be quickly knocked out.

Russia's air defence is the most modern and the best in the world.


Yet it still wouldn't do didly squat in terms of defense against the US Airforce. Period.

Russian tanks are among the best, definatly better than American and British ones.


Wrong again, the T-90 is beginning to show it's age, the British Challenger-2 is considered the best armed and armored tank in the world, with the M1A2 Abrams on par with it, with 3rd place going to the T-90.

Air Force may not be able to compete in terms of quantity, but in terms of quality it sure puts up a good fight!


If you say so.... :roll:

In terms of both quantity, quality, and doctrine the US Airforce is lightyears, lightyears ahead of Russia's, and with the F-22, F-35, and a number of other deisgns and systems scheduled for deployment that gap will be even further widened.

So, don't fuckin bullshit me with your "bad economy = bad military" crap because it's simply not true.


Actually, it is true, like Garibaldi said before, a nation cannot support a good military without an equally good economy, it's the way the world works, and Russia has definitely been on the receiving end of this for the past decade or so. A good example of this would be that new Orel class aircraft carrier that you guys were planning to introduce during the late 80's. Do you want to know why they stopped construction on the Ul'yanovsk despite the fact that it was nearly 1/2 done? Need I say more?[/quote]
By glinert
#172639
You wish !, probably thy do it alone.
I wish you a mary cristmas, I wish you a mary cristmas and a happy and good fall.
This song is for Rusia.
Go ! go ! go ! down afcourse.


I remind you Nazi lovers we freed you from Turkish dominatin, respect just little bit.
By Berkut
#172666
Garibaldi,
First off, a bad economy does generate a bad military. Generally, a bad economy iniates a bad morale, as well as worse means for military training and production. You can not deny this.

I do not deny it, but the case of Russia is different, because of the heritage the Soviet Union left behind it. After 15 years, it is still up to the highest standards. But I do agree that because of Russian relatively bad economy, it cannot compete with the US anymore, but it is still the 2nd best in the world. And you can't deny it!

Organized crime has a lot to do with Russian capabilities. I wouldn't expect it to become completly under control, but when it is as rampant as it is in Russia it is clear Rusia doesn't have the capabilities to stop a man smuggling drugs,

Organized crime is not a military issue. But yes, it is a big proble, but it's not up to the military to solve it.

let alone The US with it's allies.

Are you telling me if NATO attacks, Russia is dead? Humm...that reminds of something...how about you?

I can't speak on your submarines, but I will explain that you're Navy will be confined to the Black sea. The submarines themselves will be ineffective, they'll either be blown to bits by our airforce or destroyed if they try to break the Dardenelles.

The Black sea fleet is only one among others. There are other fleets better euiped and bigger. Northern fleet, Pacific fleet, Atlantic fleet.

And how exactly are the subs going to be destroyed by your airforce?

Also, that Aircraft carrier isn't gona "take down" two or three American Aircraft carriers, it's the planes that do the fighting. Besides, you said it yourself, it's only one.

The difference between the Russian carrier Kuznetsov and American carrier for example is that the Kuznetsov is not a "real" carrier. Technically it is a heavy cruiser, which means it has anti-ship missiles, torpedoes, underwater mines, all kinds of defensive systems. It's a fleet on its own. It is also capable of carrying up to about 30 Su-33.
American carriers only have defensive cannons. So basically the Kuznetsov can attack at a great range with it's missiles without even using its fighters. But there is only one...
Also, Su-33 are superior to American, French and British navalised fighters and interseptors. F-18, F-14, Super Etondards, Harriers. Remember when a Russian Su-27 and Su-24 flyby the KittyHawk and took pictures, and the carrier launched an A-6 after 10-15 minutes to "counter" the "threat"? :lol: That was funny.
And with the navalised Su-34 (Su-32FN) entering service next year, forget it, it is going to beat the shit out of any carrier, anywhere, anytime.

On a final note about the navy...don't forget that the Soviet/Russian navies were defensive navies. This is the main reason why USSR built more subs than carriers because it wasn't planing to attack and it did not had the need to "project power"

I won't speak on your air defence, but I know that your Tanks are not the best in the world and Tanks althogether are obsolete. You're have always been designed for power and defence, while America has faster tanks and because of our renovations are now just as powerful and portective, if not more, in a much more advanced design.

You speak like someone who knows shit about tanks, planes, etc. You're just throwing random shit at me...Can you name me at least one tank with its caracteristics?
I did not say Russian tanks are the best, but they are definatly better than US' tanks (only German Leopard 2A6X are better than T-80UM1/2 which is one of the best tanks Russia has)

And you're Airforce can't do a thing, in terms of quantity or quality. America has very, very good pilots. Not to mention, we have more experience at bombing the hell out of shit.

Russia has better fighters and interseptors than the US' (except the F-22), less but better. And Russian pilots are good enough.


I'll answer to the other dude tomorrow, enough for today.
By American Victory
#172725
Gimme a break! Russian Navy sux!!! It SUX! They only have one friggen carrier, the fleet is rusting (it is!), and remember the Kursk disaster? come on! Russkie Navy is all dried up. Their military is a paper tiger, leave it a paper tiger. WE won the cold war, they lost. Plain and simple.
By Garibaldi
#172810
glinert wrote:I remind you Nazi lovers we freed you from Turkish dominatin, respect just little bit.


1) Since when did Romania love Nazi's?

2) Do you really know that little about history that you think Russia freed Romania from the Ottoman Empire? After two ethnic groups in the Balkans and Mediteranean fought and won their freedom, there was a wave of revolutions through Eastern Europe to free themselves of Turkish rule. Romania freed themselves, the turkish soldiers were having too much trouble putting down the Serbs, Albanians, Macedonians, Bosnians, Bulgarians, ect...

If you mean in respects of WWI, btw, I wouldn't know the exact details but I doubt it. Romania jumped in the war a month early, attacked the dying Austrian Empire and got wiped out then and there. However, Austria-Hungary made no grounds because a little bit later all their soldiers walked off.
By caesar
#172904
Napuljun wrote:Cesear how can you sing such a song when your country is far more down than Russia? :eh:

You are blind my friend
Come to Romania and youll see our car, bildings and girls. You will be impresionate!
By caesar
#172905
Liberal wrote:At least Romania will join EU..

Rusia is the last dinosaur of the world. But time its ticking away. Sleep well my barbarian neibour.
By caesar
#172908
Berkut wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:
Berkut wrote:I give up...it's useless to argue with a 12 year old...you don't know what you are talking about.

You seem to sistematically avoid answering my question, Berkut.

When the question starts by "If the Soviet Union was so great, how come its gone...", there is nothing to answer, it's just ignorance...

caesar,
Russia will be back again, it will improve, but Romania will always stay in that fuckin hole it is in! You think EU will solve your problems? Eu is going to wipe theur feet on you...but hey, it's your choice right.

I am afraid you need more than a miracle to do that.
At this time you are in the greatest hole of sheet in the world :lol: :D :lol:
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