[Steve_American]

1] This is only semi-related to the upcoming bankruptcy of the USA and many Western countries.

As we near bankrutptcy, our cleptocratic elite will use wars, epidemics, emergencies of all kinds, ... 2] in order to steal as much money as possible before the whole Titanic goes down.

The USA's upcoming bankruptcy can explain most of American foreign policy atrocities of the last 20 years.

And the monopolistic nature of USA media explains why the normal people of the USA didn't see this bankruptcy coming ever. Our gullibility makes us easy to rip off, and easy to kill off. And that manufactured gullibility is another product of monopolistic media.

1] My point (the MS Econ. theories are just bullcrap) is not related to the so-called coming "bankruptcy" of the US Gov. Instead, it is my contention that predictions that the US is going bankrupt that are based on an understanding of economics that is founded on MS Econ theories, are bullcrap.

So, sir, your prediction is bullcrap for the reasons I have told you in this thread about 3 times.

OTOH, private debt is a huge problem.

2] The rich had better convert their cash wealth into other things like corp. stock and real estate, because IF you are right, then cash will be almost valueless.

Now 102720 views, so over 6500 views in 1 long day.

.

[QatzelOk]

...it is my contention that predictions that the US is going bankrupt that are based on an understanding of economics that is founded on MS Econ theories, are bullcrap.

So, sir, your prediction is bullcrap for the reasons I have told you in this thread about 3 times...

Interesting to use such an informal vocabulary for such a serious topic. Economics (and Finance) are not areas where informal words are appropriate, and you have not "proven" anything in this thread except that you seem to be unable to express any ideas in a concise way.

For concise writing, I offer you two recent articles:

...The failed wars since 2000 have cost them (American taxpayers) around $5 trillion in direct outlays, or around $40,000 per household. Another $2 trillion or so will be spent in the coming decades on veterans’ care...

US Military-linked outlays in 2024 will come to around $1.5 trillion, or roughly $12,000 per household, if we add the direct Pentagon spending, the budgets of the CIA and other intelligence agencies, the budget of the Veteran’s Administration, the Department of Energy nuclear weapons program, the State Department’s military-linked “foreign aid” (such as to Israel), and other security-related budget lines. Hundreds of billions of dollars are money down the drain, squandered in useless wars, overseas military bases, and a wholly unnecessary arms build-up that brings the world closer to WWIII....

(Sachs: US Foreign Policy Is A Scam Built On Corruption)

Going bankrupt on wars... is where we are right now. This isn't bullcrap. It's corruption leading to bankruptcy. Warcrap and Corruption crap.

...It took a tremendous push down the stretch, but the U.S. national debt was able to hit the 34 trillion dollar mark before the end of 2023. At this moment I am just so overwhelmed that I don’t know who to thank first. Over the past few years, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Chucky Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Kevin McCarthy and so many other hard working spenders have been instrumental in helping us reach this remarkable achievement.

And we never would have gotten here without the relentless help of CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, the New York Times, the Washington Post and all of the other mainstream news outlets that kept assuring the American people that it was okay to steal trillions of dollars from our children and our grandchildren...

(Has America's Empire Of Money Reached The Endgame?)

Once again, this isn't bullcrap. It's stealing from your own children through government debt schemes. Eating the seed corn crap. Passing the buck crap. Spending your kids' futures crap.

And we are very close to the endgame, according to Mr. Snyder.

[QatzelOk]

As Thomas Jefferson wrote:

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

He is saying that the ability of some "central authority" to play around with currency value, inflation, etc.... creates a money-making mafia that has the campacity to empoverish everyone else with currency manipulation and money-supply manipulation.

Homelessness in the U.S. hit a record high last year

...Homelessness in America spiked last year, reaching a record high, according to an annual count that provides a snapshot of one night in January. The report, released today by the department of Housing and Urban development, found more than 650,000 people were living in shelters or outside in tents or cars. That's up a whopping 12% from the year before....

But how to make the people stupid so that they don't try to change their crooked banking system... that was the question. And commercial media was the answer!

How U.S. media lost the trust of the public

...A global pandemic, historic anti-racism protests and a turbulent U.S. presidential election had Americans glued to their screens in 2020 like never before. Cable news ratings soared, online news subscriptions increased and the amount of time we all spent online broke records.

But as people consumed more news, they also began to trust the media less, surveys showed. According to a recent Gallup survey, the percentage of Americans with no trust in the mass media hit a record high in 2020: only nine per cent of respondents said they trust the mass media "a great deal" and a full 60 per cent said they have little to "no trust at all" in it....

[Steve_American]

Interesting to use such an informal vocabulary for such a serious topic. Economics (and Finance) are not areas where informal words are appropriate, and 1] you have not "proven" anything in this thread except that you seem to be unable to express any ideas in a concise way.

For concise writing, I offer you two recent articles:

(Sachs: US Foreign Policy Is A Scam Built On Corruption)

Going bankrupt on wars... is where we are right now. This isn't bullcrap. It's corruption leading to bankruptcy. Warcrap and Corruption crap.

(Has America's Empire Of Money Reached The Endgame?)

Once again, this isn't bullcrap. 2] It's stealing from your own children through government debt schemes. Eating the seed corn crap. Passing the buck crap. Spending your kids' futures crap.

And we are very close to the endgame, according to Mr. Snyder.

1] Sir, I did prove that banks create dollars when they make loans. The fact that you don't understand the proof says something about you. I linked to the paper by Dr. Werner who proved that banks create euros by making loans in 2014. Then I explained the process that happens when a bank makes a loan. The dollars of the loan are spent into the banking system, so they add to the total deposits in the system, and these deposits meet the requirement that banks have deposits to match about 110% of their outstanding loans.

2] Lurkers, like I have said, all conclusions reached using MS Econ. theories are Bullcrap.

When Nixon took the US totally off the gold standard in 1971 by ending gold payments for dollars on demand by foreign nations and maybe foreign banks; that converted the dollar into a fully fiat currency.

Yes, too much dollar creation can cause inflation, and banks also create dollars when they make loans. But, because the dollar is a full fiat currency, the US can always pay its bills denominated in dollars.

The articles he gives us above still use a theory that assumes that the gold standard is still in force. This makes the conclusion that we are stealing from our grandchildren just wrong. OTOH, our inability to stop climate change IS STEALING THE FUTURE FROM THEM.

Yes, the theory doesn't make that premise explicitly, but it is there never-the-less. They sneak it in with other premises. The theory has never been changed since the 1880s, even when Nixon changed everything in 1971.

Lurkers, I have shown that any attempt to pay off the US national debt with tax revenue and a surplus, WILL ALWAYS cause a recession that becomes a depression. Try to get it through your heads, that a Gov. surplus means the non-gov sector must be in deficit. While the gov. can (and has) gone on for years with a deficit; this is not true for people.

When people are in deficit they are spending more than their income. To do this, they must sell assets. When they sell assets they lose value, and after a while there will be no money left in the economy (except maybe in the hands of bond holders who just cashed in a bond) to buy the assets they must sell. This means the people stop buying stuff, this means corps can't sell stuff, this means the corps lay off workers, this reduces incomes and makes the situation worse.

IMHO, FDR proved in the Great Depression that the only way to end a depression is for the Gov. to start deficit spending.

This means that the national debt can never be paid off with revenue and a surplus. The only 3 ways are for the Gov. to get money from outside the nation with a massive trade surplus or by winning a war and looting the loser. Neither of these is possible in the world today. The 3rd way is for the Gov. to stop selling bonds and pay off old bonds as they come due with electronic dollars deposited into the banking system. This way is also going to cause problems.

So, all talk about needing to pay the national debt is scaremongering. It is meaningless drivel.

Yes, there can be problems. If you want to blame someone, blame Reagan. He started the mess we are in. All Presidents since have kept making it "worse". Now, there is no option but to keep it going. All other options are much worse and just cause the worse problems sooner.

MMters have a very good track record with making accurate predictions.
They predicted the GFC.
They predicted that covid would cause inflation.
They predicted that the inflation would end in a few years. [Well. TBH, they never said a number of years, they just said a little while after whenever the shortages ended.]
They predicted that the EU &EZ would have to break their rules as soon as the 1st crisis happened after 2001, this was the GFC. And they did have to break their rules to let the ECB buy nations bonds to deficit spend to end the recession.
They predicted that Japan could have huge deficits and increase its national debt to over 250% without having high inflation.
. . . All these predictions were proved to be true.

MMTers say that the national debt is just the total of all the dollars the US Gov. spent into the economy and has not taxed back out, yet. As such the national debt is also the national surplus held by Americans and the world. That is, for every debt there must be someone who owns the asset, the 2 are linked by definition. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
. . . So MMTers ask, why is the world and Americans having a huge surplus a bad thing?

.

[QatzelOk]

... The fact that you don't understand the proof says something about you...

1. One thing about me... is that I often notice when a poster is unable to explain anything and resorts to name-calling or self-esteem attacks.

You haven't provided any information that would suggest that "we're fine" with hundreds of thousands of government debt per capita.

2. Another thing about me... is that I can spot spamminess like yours, and often attribute spam like yours to a desire to kill a discussion, rather than to contribute anything to it.

We are going bankrupt because we have been living under a corrupt "democratic" system for a long time. This "democratic" system has given us lying compradors who do whatever their sponsors tell them to do, and lie to the public to get votes. Result: bankruptcy.

...the multi-party electoral system (“democracy”) is the only form of government designed to be controlled by outsiders, naturally leaving it open to corruption and fraud.

The "outsiders" are the banks and their corporate pals. They have used PR and government funding... to steal everything from average people.

Lurkers, I have shown...

Your constant shout-out to lurkers is strange and possibly a sign of something. Has this thread been supressed so that only a controlled debate with a spammer is possible?

If so, this would suggest that we in the West are, in fact, going bankrupt, and will now go to Fascism without collecting our 200 dollars for passing Go.

[Steve_American]

1. One thing about me... is that I often notice when a poster is unable to explain anything and resorts to name-calling or self-esteem attacks.

You haven't provided any information that would suggest that "we're fine" with hundreds of thousands of government debt per capita.

2. Another thing about me... is that I can spot spamminess like yours, and often attribute spam like yours to a desire to kill a discussion, rather than to contribute anything to it.

We are going bankrupt because we have been living under a corrupt "democratic" system for a long time. This "democratic" system has given us lying compradors who do whatever their sponsors tell them to do, and lie to the public to get votes. Result: bankruptcy.


The "outsiders" are the banks and their corporate pals. They have used PR and government funding... to steal everything from average people.

Your constant shout-out to lurkers is strange and possibly a sign of something. Has this thread been supressed so that only a controlled debate with a spammer is possible?

If so, this would suggest that we in the West are, in fact, going bankrupt, and will now go to Fascism without collecting our 200 dollars for passing Go.

I address the Lurkers because addressing people like you is useless. It is useless because apparently you don't read what I write, and certainly don't respond to any points that I make.

The definition of spam is the following:
"Spam definition
Spam is any kind of unwanted, unsolicited digital communication that gets sent out in bulk. Often spam is sent via email, but it can also be distributed via text messages, phone calls, or social media."

I don't see how that applies to my posts, except maybe that you don't want me to make them.

Also, that is a personal attack. Right after you attacked me for attacking you.

As for the rest. Blah blah blah.
.

[QatzelOk]

...My point... MS Econ. theories are just bullcrap...

This was "your point?"

I agree that most ms econ is manipulative lies.

That is perhaps WHY we are going bankrupt (the lies of the comprador class and their MS media), and not proof that we are not.

You have spent many words to display this supportive point, all the while pretending to be in opposition to "we are going bankrupt."

Why have you done this? To spam up the most important characteristic of late modern capitalism?

Here is some insight into the process of how we will go bankrupt as a society:

...And one of the reasons that economies turn down is because the debt overhead grows so much that it deflates. ...paying creditors, paying debts to the financial sector removes purchasing power from the consumer spending and from corporate spending on industrial capital formation...

So the interest payments to service the debt will become so high, that spending on infrastructure and social services will plummet, as will consumer purchasing power.

The USA will not have high-speed rail or free healthcare for all.
It will just have poor serfs and nasty parasites.

And some of the serfs will gladly post lies for their parasite sponsors.

[Steve_American]

This was "your point?"

I agree that most ms econ is manipulative lies.

That is perhaps WHY we are going bankrupt (the lies of the comprador class and their MS media), and not proof that we are not.

1] You have spent many words to display this supportive point, all the while pretending to be in opposition to "we are going bankrupt."

Why have you done this? To spam up the most important characteristic of late modern capitalism?

Here is some insight into the process of how we will go bankrupt as a society:

2] QatzelOk quoted Dr. Michael Hudson:
"...And one of the reasons that economies turn down is because the debt overhead grows so much that it deflates. ...paying creditors, paying debts to the financial sector removes purchasing power from the consumer spending and from corporate spending on industrial capital formation..."

3] So the interest payments to service the [national] debt will become so high, that spending on infrastructure and social services will plummet, as will consumer purchasing power.

The USA will not have high-speed rail or free healthcare for all.
It will just have poor serfs and nasty parasites.

And some of the serfs will gladly post lies for their parasite sponsors.

1] See #2 below. I have agreed several times in this thread that private debt is a big problem, but it is totally different from US Gov. debt, because the US issues its fiat currency dollars. If you want an analogy, this one is close. The US Gov. is like a counterfeiter who can counterfeit (perfectly undictable as such) US bonds in any amount. He, therefore, can always print another one and sell it to get dollars to pay all his bills.

So, you agree with me that MS Econ. is a pack of lies, except for this one. This one being that the US will be unable to pay its bills or that the interest payments will make it impossible for the Gov. to keep kicking the can down the road.

I have given you reasons that this one is also a lie. These include the following:
. . a] The UK has had a national debt for 329 years. Most of these years it was even on the gold standard.
. . b] The US national debt is also the financial assets of many someones in the American economy or some foreigners. So, the debt is matched by that asset. When the Gov. deficit spends, it is adding financial assets into the economy. Explain why adding assets is a bad thing.
. . c] I have shown that Japan has been able to push the debt/GDP ratio to over 240% and still keep the interest rate at about 0.1%/year. I assert that if Japan can do it the US can also.


2] In this quote Dr. Hudson is referring only to private debt, not to Gov. debt. You took it out of context and assumed he is referring to Gov. debt also.

You can see this where he says "...paying creditors, paying debts to the financial sector removes purchasing power from the consumer spending and from corporate spending on industrial capital formation...". This is not true for US Gov. debt, except when it is running a surplus. I have explained why a Gov. surplus will always cause a recession, because it does exactly that. So, as long as the Gov. rolls its debt over, paying its bonds as they come due neither adds nor subtracts dollars from the economy. And, unlike repaying a loan by a bank, when the Gov. pays interest, it is adding dollars to the economy, but paying interest to a bank merely changes who owns the dollars.


3] You keep forgetting that the US issues the dollar. As such, it is sort of like a Gov. that can create real gold out of lead.

Look, I agree that it would be nicer if the national debt was less because we had kept taxing the rich for the last 43 years.
BUT, I disagree that the Gov. will go bankrupt. This is because doing that will damage the economy, including the assets of the rich. So, the rich will make the Gov. keep kicking the can down the road.
For example, the law was changed during WWII to allow the Fed. to buy bonds direct from the treasury. This can be done again.
So, my fix in the current situation is to convince the rich to see that their self-interest is to pay workers more and pay higher taxes, because the alternative is either a worker uprising or a climate change caused collapse of civilization making all money without any value.


.

[QatzelOk]

Steve, I think you're writing texts that might encourage the FIRE sector that there will always be tricks and scams that they can use to get their money and then get out (before the whole society collapses and burns). If I was a hedge fund manager, your spammy texts would encourage me that I could scam my way to safety.

The US Gov. is like a counterfeiter who can counterfeit (perfectly undictable as such) US bonds in any amount. He, therefore, can always print another one and sell it to get dollars to pay all his bills.

Sounds like a scam to have infinite power by just putting ink on paper. A legal scam, but a scam nonetheless.

Magical. And thus, fake and propagandistic.

Meanwhile, explaining what the end-game is of national bankruptcy and how the FIRE sector will profit from mass bankruptcy and the ruination of the middle class and poor:

...It is about the taking of collateral, all of it, the end game of this globally synchronous debt accumulation super cycle. This is being executed by long-planned, intelligent design, the audacity and scope of which is difficult for the mind to encompass.

Included are all financial assets, all money on deposit at banks, all stocks and bonds, and hence, all underlying property of all public corporations, including all inventories, plant and equipment, land, mineral deposits, inventions and intellectual property.

Privately owned personal and real property financed with any amount of debt will be similarly taken, as will the assets of privately owned businesses, which have been financed with debt. If even partially successful, this will be the greatest conquest and subjugation in world history.

We are now living within a hybrid war conducted almost entirely by deception, and thus designed to achieve war aims with little energy input. It is a war of conquest directed not against other nation states but against all of humanity...

So the reason that banksters have been ensuring that their political vassals bankrupt the states that they run... is because once a state is bankrupt, the banksters can collect all the collateral. That collateral is all the infrastructure, public programs, and private property will follow as people go bankrupt themselves in the absence of jobs or government programs.

OR... as you say, Steve, the government can just print bonds forever and we will ALL live happily ever after. Or at least a handful of us can, while the rest starve to death while dodging stray bullets.

Your muddying of the waters and inconcise writing are weapons, not explanations or justifications.

counterfeit(perfectly undictable as such)

Our 1% pickpockets have nice watches?

[Steve_American]

Steve, I think you're writing texts that might encourage the FIRE sector that there will always be tricks and scams that they can use to get their money and then get out (before the whole society collapses and burns). If I was a hedge fund manager, your spammy texts would encourage me that I could scam my way to safety.


Sounds like a scam to have infinite power by just putting ink on paper. A legal scam, but a scam nonetheless.

Magical. And thus, fake and propagandistic.

Meanwhile, explaining what the end-game is of national bankruptcy and how the FIRE sector will profit from mass bankruptcy and the ruination of the middle class and poor:



So the reason that banksters have been ensuring that their political vassals bankrupt the states that they run... is because once a state is bankrupt, the banksters can collect all the collateral. That collateral is all the infrastructure, public programs, and private property will follow as people go bankrupt themselves in the absence of jobs or government programs.

OR... as you say, Steve, the government can just print bonds forever and we will ALL live happily ever after. Or at least a handful of us can, while the rest starve to death while dodging stray bullets.

Your muddying of the waters and inconcise writing are weapons, not explanations or justifications.


Our 1% pickpockets have nice watches?

Like I predicted, you ignore almost all of what I wrote.

The only part you didn't ignore was my analogy that the Gov. can't be bankrupt because it is like a counterfeiter who can make perfect US bonds in any denomination. But, you just mocked it as a scam, a legal scam. And, you still use the phrase "national bankruptcy".

Given the current state of the MAGA Repud Party, where telling lies is the standard practice, I can see where you and many others can see that the Gov.'s fiat currency is a scam and surely will end in disaster. My solution to this is to only vote for Dems at all levels of gov. because all Repuds are almost as evil as Trump. but most of them are not as stupid as he is. And, being smarter makes them more of a threat to democracy and to the economy.

I'll tell you that this thread got 7960 views in the last 17 hours. It now has over 133,929 views. So, a lot of people either want to read what you are saying or what I'm saying.

As for your worry that the FIRE Sector is planning on taking all the collateral before the economy collapses, . I agree that private debt is a huge problem and, the/my solution is for the Gov. to continue deficit spending combined with ending neoliberal economics as the guide to Gov. policy. So, Gov. policy can be used to increase wages to double what they are now, cut taxes on the many and vastly increase taxes on the rich and big corps.

When seen through the MMT lens, national Gov. deficit spending increases incomes for someone in the economy, this provides income to pay down private debts. Doubling wages will make it easier for the masses to pay their monthly expenses and debts. It will also let them pay more for things if small business must increases prices. Cutting taxes on the masses will redress the last 42 years of taxes being shifted off the rich and onto the masses. Increasing taxes on the rich and big corps will be almost impossible, but if it were done, it would shift the tax burden back onto the rich.

I have pointed out that MS Econ. thinking emphasizes the sustainability or unsustainability of policies. And, I have pointed out that, a policy of keeping real wages close to flat and increasing the rate of profits every year for big corps is unsustainable. That in the long run, all the income will be being earned by the big corps and their rich owners. Before that extreme point is reached the situation will be the masses can barely earn enough to eat and live on the street and all the other income is going to the big corps and their rich owners.
. . . So, why is this unsustainability ignored by MS Econ. theorists? Is it because now it is making the rich richer and the future is not here yet, so who cares about the future?
. . . MS economists only care about unsustainability when the policy is helping the masses.

NOTE: the only policy that MMTers want to use is their National Job Guarantee Program. It is fully funded by the national Gov., including local admin expenses. It is locally controlled. [In the US, IMHO, in Repub states, it will be necessary for there to also be a Federal JGP office in the post office, so Blacks, etc. can get equal jobs as Whites.] The jobs all pay the same "socially inclusive wage" which is now about $20 to $25/hr. The jobs need to be socially useful, but this is to be liberally interpreted. An MMTer has said, for example, that surfers can be paid to be life guards and teachers of beach safety when not surfing, and that sons and daughters can be paid to care for their parents in their home, etc.

MMTers leave all other possible policies up to the legislatures and other leaders. MMT is just a lens to see how the fiat money system currently works.

Note: in the EU & especially the EZ, the rules keep all the nations from being able to use this lens, because they either use the euro or they can't keep increasing the national debt, except in a crisis when/if the rules are relaxed.

.

[Steve_American]

So-called ‘Team Transitory’ declared victors --- the title of MMTer Bill Mitchell's blog for Jan. 8, 2024.

OR, . . . So-called ‘Team Inflation is going to be Transitory’ declared victors by some economists, including Joseph Stiglitz.

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61491#comment-141639

I cut and pasted this introduction.
On June 8, 2021, the UK Guardian published an Op Ed I wrote about inflation – This article is more than 2 years old
"Price rises should be short-lived – so let’s not resurrect inflation as a bogeyman."
In that article, and in several other forums since – written, TV, radio, presentations at events – I [Bill Mitchell] articulated the narrative that the current inflationary pressures were transitory and would abate without the need for interest rate increases or cut backs in net government spending. In the subsequent months, I received a lot of flack from fellow economists and those out in the Twitter-verse etc who sent me quotes from the likes of Larry Summers and other prominent mainstreamers who claimed that interest rates would have to rise and government net spending cut to push up unemployment towards some conception they had of the NAIRU, where inflation would stabilise. I was also told that the emergence of the inflationary pressures signalled the death knell for Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) – the critics apparently had some idea that the pressures were caused by excessive government spending and slack monetary settings which demonstrated in their mind that this was proof that MMT policies were dangerous. Of course, they were just demonstrating their ignorance (deliberate or otherwise) of the fact that there are no MMT policies as such. MMT is an analytical framework not a policy regime. Anyway, in the last week, on mainstream economist seems to have recanted and has admitted that “Those who believed inflation would be transitory were proven right, and those who demanded the sacrifice of mass unemployment proven wrong”. For those E-mail warriors who think it is okay to send abusive messages to people you don’t know (or abusive messages in general) please do not send me apologies!

In the UK Guardian Op Ed, I noted the ‘inflation frenzy’ that the mainstream media promoted in 2021 – ‘fever pitch anxiety’ headlines and more were common.

They kept giving a platform toe the former US Treasury secretary Larry Summers who demanded that unemployment be pushed up significantly to quell the ‘demand pressures’ arising from President Biden’s fiscal injections during Covid.
... snip ...
Inflation started declining in September 2022 or thereabouts.

I pointed out in various fora that unemployment rates in most countries had been relatively stable over an extended period yet the inflation rate was in retreat.

The point I was making in that context was that in that combination of events, the current (stable) unemployment rates had to be above any NAIRU (Non-Accelerating-Inflation-Rate-of-Unemployment) interpretation not below it, even if you believed in the veracity of the concept in the first place.

Why?

Orthodox theory says that if the unemployment rate is below the NAIRU, then inflation should be accelerating and vice versa.

So if the unemployment rate had been stable yet inflation was falling (decelerating) then the unemployment rate could not logically be below the NAIRU however estimated.

In other words, trying to run a conventional New Keynesian macroeconomic narrative to justify the central bank policy hikes – based on the ‘need’ to push the unemployment rate up to some NAIRU level and hence reduce aggregate spending – was not warranted.

The central bankers who were champing at the bit to push up interest rates had no theoretical leg to stand on.
...
End quote.

.

[QatzelOk]

Like I predicted, you ignore almost all of what I wrote.

I didn't ignore it, I just tried to read it and found it needlessly monotonous and directionless.

Likewise, your inability to summarize or vulgarize... means that you are just vomiting text into this thread - perhaps to kill any ideas that might be shared within it.

This tactic of yours, by the way, is very common in economics. Its technical name is "Baffling with bullshit," and it has been used to infantilize most of the adult population of the ZOG West.

Adult "children" don't care about national debt. They just want to watch the next chapter of their favorite sitcom or historical drama.

By baffling them with bullshit, you convince these de-politicized child-minded adults that economics is a complex science like astro-physics or string theory. But in reality, it's just pickpockets creating distractions so that they can continue to rip you off.


Steve_American's watch

[Steve_American]

I didn't ignore it, I just tried to read it and found it needlessly monotonous and directionless.

Likewise, your inability to summarize or vulgarize... means that you are just vomiting text into this thread - perhaps to kill any ideas that might be shared within it.

This tactic of yours, by the way, is very common in economics. Its technical name is "Baffling with bullshit," and it has been used to infantilize most of the adult population of the ZOG West.

Adult "children" don't care about national debt. They just want to watch the next chapter of their favorite sitcom or historical drama.

By baffling them with bullshit, you convince these de-politicized child-minded adults that economics is a complex science like astro-physics or string theory. But in reality, it's just pickpockets creating distractions so that they can continue to rip you off.

[img]https:/[==]/external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.G2AjwlBrBuv0u4NwDxkiHQAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=4f0242cca3274e635ebc878909a2d9fb0cf23c1a8f6c69136c541c6306c3dc0f&ipo=images[/img]
Steve_American's watch

Well, as I read your reply, you didn't read all of what I wrote, and you certainly didn't single one point and claim it is wrong AND show me why. So, all I can do is to reassert that IMHO, every point I made is true. And in the blog, I linked, Bill Mitchell also always wrote the truth.

I'm going to suppose that your problem with my posts is called "cognitive dissidence".

It seems like you accused me of trying to "baffle them with bullshit". I do assert that that is exactly what MS Economists try to do, with the false premises they use in their proofs. [As I keep asserting, in logic one premise that is not true (i.e., false) makes the proof invalid.]

But, I'm trying to break through the indoctrination that MS Econ. has been pushing for many decades, at least since 1971, but also in part since 1914 (when the Fed was created by the law).
. . . Beginning in 1914 banks have been authorized to create dollars when they make loans and these dollars are then used by other banks to meet the reserve requirement in the law. And beginning in 1971 the dollar has been a fully fiat currency, which means the national debt is also the assets of the bond holders, and most importantly it can be rolled over without limit, without ever increasing taxes or cutting social sending to pay it down.
. . . Note, that I'm not saying the extreme case is the ideal case, I'm just saying that the alternative of default is always worse than rolling it over again. I'm also asserting, and I hope I have convinced the lurkers, that a recession will always be caused if any attempt is made to run a surplus to pay down the debt with dollars of revenue. [Well, except maybe we can pay it down some if the dollars all come from special taxes on the super-rich, but they will fight that tooth and nail.]

MMTers also assert that history has proven that the Gov. and central bank can always control the interest rate on Gov. bonds. Japan has done it for 30 years. [TBH, OTOH, this may be because Japan has almost always had a trade surplus, and the US and most nations don't. But, the US has the world's reserve currency, so that may make the US more like Japan than it is like Canada or the UK.]
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[late]

Well, as I read your reply, you didn't read all of what I wrote, and you certainly didn't single one point and claim it is wrong AND show me why.

Qatz has a chip on his shoulder. All chip, and no horse..

He doesn't know economics from a hole in the ground.

[QatzelOk]

Qatz has a chip on his shoulder. All chip, and no horse..

He doesn't know economics from a hole in the ground.

Going bankrupt is relatively easy to understand. It happens when you can no longer service your debts by paying the interest - nor can you afford the arms required to steal what you need (from other countries like Iraq, Libya and Syria) to pay off your creditors.

EconomicsTM is mostly the art of hiding your scams with bullshit, and Steven_American has shown that he is semi-competent at doing this. Just competent enough to reveal the scam.

BullshittingTM is an integral part of ripping-everyone-off. So you can see that whoever owns the banking rip-off scam... needs to appropriate the tools of propaganda (mass media and religion) as well.

Once the West is bankrupt, the citizens will have no rights. And that is the long-term objective of the masters of the universe - stripping citizens of all their rights so these former citizens can revert to the ignorant slavery of yore. Once this happens, the masters will be actual MASTERS again, like their incestuous race-narratives tells them they should be.

[late]

Going bankrupt is relatively easy to understand.

First, if it's true, it's remains true. Ad Hom doesn't turn the truth into a falsehood..

Second, macroeconomics is a beast. Not only are we not going bankrupt, we are sucking in investment from around the world. You are looking at the early stage of an economic boom.

Third, Krugman was once writing about MMT, and their assertion that debt doesn't matter. He said that it would erode the value of the currency. This is very true. When I came home from Europe in 1973, after just 4 months I noticed my dollar was down against most European currencies.

IOW, this has been going on longer than you've been alive, don't hold your breath. Long time ago, I thought the way you did, but I noticed the American economy always got back up when it got knocked down, and eventually got back up to speed.

Everybody, including me, predicted a recession after the pandemic. Instead, the economy got hot, scared the Fed.

[QatzelOk]

...Not only are we not going bankrupt, we are sucking in investment from around the world. You are looking at the early stage of an economic boom...

So it will be easy for families of four all across the USA to handle paying $20,000 in interest for the next fifty years?

Macroeconomics is NOT the same thing as securing the income or sustainability of a nation. In the past, national bankruptcies were "handled" by killing tens of millions of innocent people in wars.

But your magical and unsourced "investment from around the world" meme... is meant to reassure whom exactly?

The people buying tickets to Disney World?

Videogame players who have failed all their math exams?

Christian evangelists who pray for income security instead of balancing their books?

[late]

So it will be easy for families of four all across the USA to handle paying $20,000 in interest for the next fifty years?

Macroeconomics is NOT the same thing as securing the income or sustainability of a nation. In the past, national bankruptcies were "handled" by killing tens of millions of innocent people in wars.

But your magical and unsourced "investment from around the world" meme... is meant to reassure whom exactly?

The people buying tickets to Disney World?

Videogame players who have failed all their math exams?

Christian evangelists who pray for income security instead of balancing their books?

The comment was a response to your blathering.

[Steve_American]

@QatzelOk, you wrote, "In the past, national bankruptcies were "handled" by killing tens of millions of innocent people in wars."

The link is to an article about how WWII ended the Great Depression.

The thing is that in 1939 and 1941 the whole world was still on the gold standard and so nations might not be able to get enough gold to pay their bills.

What is different now is that except for the EU and a few other nations that use the US$ or gold (=Russia?), all nations use a fiat currency.

This makes all the difference in the world.

now 181,505 views.

[Steve_American]

First, if it's true, it's remains true. Ad Hom doesn't turn the truth into a falsehood..

Second, macroeconomics is a beast. Not only are we not going bankrupt, we are sucking in investment from around the world. You are looking at the early stage of an economic boom.

Third, Krugman was once writing about MMT, and their assertion that debt doesn't matter. He said that it would erode the value of the currency. This is very true. When I came home from Europe in 1973, after just 4 months I noticed my dollar was down against most European currencies.

IOW, this has been going on longer than you've been alive, don't hold your breath. Long time ago, I thought the way you did, but I noticed the American economy always got back up when it got knocked down, and eventually got back up to speed.

Everybody, including me, predicted a recession after the pandemic. Instead, the economy got hot, scared the Fed.

late, 1973 had nothing to do with MMT. In 1971 Nixon had just taken the US, and so the world, off the gold standard. The world's economy was still adjusting to that. Many experts were predicting inflation would be the result if/when the dollar was not backed by gold. Not necessarily because the Gov. had increased deficit spending, but because some Gov. in the future would.
. . . But, more than that, 1973 was the year that OPEC embargoed oil sales to the US and not to Europe. So, oil prices had spiked in the US and there were long lines at gas stations. And, this spike caused all other prices to increase, hence there was inflation.

So, pointing to 1973 as an example of what happens when Govs. increase the money supply is not accurate, because the Gov. had not caused most of the inflation by deficit spending. The inflation was caused by the shortage of oil in the economy caused by the embargo. [TBH, it is possible that you were talking about early in 1973 before the embargo, but if so, you could have said so for clarity.]

MMT can explain every episode of high inflation by pointing out the shortages that were the real cause. In an old thread I linked to a Cato Institute (a very conservative thinktank) report the all cases of hyper-inflation in history (IIRC it was just 57 cases) were caused by shortages. This included Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe. [57 cases tells me they were limited by lack of sources to "recent", i.e. after 1900, examples.]

It was 198,450 views, now at 12:30 am eastern time it is 201,500 views.