[Verv]

I had forgotten this character's name when I suddenly came across a reference to him in another book. The Wikipedia says this of him:

Li Bai (705 – 762), also known as Li Po, was a Chinese poet acclaimed from his own day to the present as a genius and romantic figure who took traditional poetic forms to new heights. He and his friend Du Fu (712–770) were the two most prominent figures in the flourishing of Chinese poetry in the mid-Tang Dynasty that is often called the "Golden Age of China".

Here is a most exquisite poem written by him in 8th century China that seems utterly timeless, and something that you would have almost thought was written by a 60s beatnik or a some other radical cut out on his own.

WAKING FROM DRUNKENNESS ON A SPRING DAY

"Life in the World is but a big dream;
I will not spoil it by any labour or care."
So saying, I was drunk all the day,
Lying helpless at the porch in front of my door.
When I woke up, I blinked at the garden-lawn;
A lonely bird was singing amid the flowers.
I asked myself, had the day been wet or fine?
The Spring wind was telling the mango-bird.
Moved by its song I soon began to sigh,
And as wine was there I filled my own cup.
Wildly singing I waited for the moon to rise;
When my song was over, all my senses had gone.

[benpenguin]

This guy is always drunk or dancing with his sword when making his poems.

[Potemkin]

Li Bai was a genius poet, who has profoundly influenced modern Western culture as well as Chinese culture. For example, the British and American Modernist poets of the early 20th century found his work to be a revelation, and one of the founding poems of Modernism was Ezra Pound's translation of Li Bai's The River Merchant's Wife: a Letter. Mahler set several of his poems to music in his symphony Das Lied von der Erde. Li Bai was one of the coolest guys who ever lived.

[Atlantis]

you would have almost thought was written by a 60s beatnik

I don't see what this has to do with the 60s. The 60s generation was highly politicized and all excited about creating a better world. Li Bai's poem, on the other hand, is coined by the prevailing Buddhist mood of the Tang dynasty that nicely fitted with the bohemian lifestyle of the refined and parasitic feudal classes. The two couldn't be more different.

"Life in the World is but a big dream;
I will not spoil it by any labour or care."

[Potemkin]

To be fair to Verv, the '50s beatniks and '60s hippies were mainly middle-class First World dropouts, who were products of the new affluence of American society in the post-War period. Most of them were therefore themselves essentially parasitic in an economic sense. Most of them, furthermore, don't seem to have given much thought to the material or economic basis of their existence, any more than Li Bai did, so their attitudes (as different versions of abstract idealist bohemianism manifested in very different times, cultures and economic systems) are indeed comparable. The mentality is similar because in both cases it involved an idealist detachment from economic reality.

[Atlantis]

To be fair to Verv, the '50s beatniks and '60s hippies were mainly middle-class First World dropouts, ... The mentality is similar because in both cases it involved an idealist detachment from economic reality.

I can't speak for 50s generation in the US, but I know a thing or two about 60s generation in Europe. While it goes without saying that any first world citizen by definition belongs to the exploiting classes (even though today's European left doesn't seem to see it that way), the 60s political left was certainly more real than today's left. The political/cultural revolution of the 60s was not a middle-class phenomenon and it certainly didn't have anything to do with a parasitic feudal class.

You are muddying the waters, and you know it.

[Potemkin]

I can't speak for 50s generation in the US, but I know a thing or two about 60s generation in Europe. While it goes without saying that any first world citizen by definition belongs to the exploiting classes (even though today's European left doesn't seem to see it that way), the 60s political left was certainly more real than today's left. The political/cultural revolution of the 60s was not a middle-class phenomenon and it certainly didn't have anything to do with a parasitic feudal class.

You are muddying the waters, and you know it.

Hmm... you're probably right. It's just that I have a soft spot for Li Bai. It's unpleasant for me to think of him as being just another parasitic Chinese aristo, living off the sweated labour of the masses. Which, objectively speaking, is exactly what he was.

[Atlantis]

Marxism and the fine arts ... that is something that can get your nickers in a twist.

Aside from Brecht and a few others, is there anything a Marxist can enjoy with a clear conscience?

Must be hard to know that all the great achievements of mankind have been made by the class enemy.

[Potemkin]

Marxism and the fine arts ... that is something that can get your nickers in a twist.

Aside from Brecht and a few others, is there anything a Marxist can enjoy with a clear conscience?

Must be hard to know that all the great achievements of mankind have been made by the class enemy.

Lol. What about the movies of Eisenstein, Pudovkin, Vertov, Dovzhenko, and a score of other great Soviet film-makers? What about the novels of Victor Hugo or Jack London, or the music of Kurt Weill, Hans Eisner, or even Beethoven, among others? What about the poetry of Shelley, of William Blake or WH Auden? And so on and so on and so forth.... Besides, a Marxist can appreciate the classic works, no matter what the political views of its creator, with a clear conscience. Balzac is regarded as a great writer by almost all Marxist critics, not because he had left-wing views (he didn't), but because his novels are an accurate reflection of the society of his time. And, as everyone knows, reality has a Marxist bias....

[fuser]

I am disappointed that Potemkin forgot Picasso in his list.

The man who is regarded as probably the greatest artist of 20th century was a lifelong member of communist party.

Also Li Bai sounds like someone I should look into and I am disappointed in myself that I haven't yet.

[Potemkin]

My bad, fuser.

[fuser]

This guy is always drunk or dancing with his sword when making his poems.

I am not sure if Ben is criticizing the man or praising his utter awesomeness.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

I've often found poetry to be a most distasteful form hero-worship. Many poets seem to be lauded more for their lives than their works. Of course there has been some truly talented poets throughout history such as Dickinson and Patrick Kavanagh but as with many of the arts most come across as pretentious egotistical feckless and talentless.

I'm not familiar with this guys work so I'm not saying he's one of them.

[Potemkin]

I've often found poetry to be a most distasteful form hero-worship. Many poets seem to be lauded more for their lives than their works. Of course there has been some truly talented poets throughout history such as Dickinson and Patrick Kavanagh but as with many of the arts most come across as pretentious egotistical feckless and talentless.

This is true, but the same could be said about any of the arts, no?

I'm not familiar with this guys work so I'm not saying he's one of them.

Li Bai is the William Shakespeare of China. No, he was not one of 'them'.

[fuser]

Sturgeon's law applies everywhere.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

I've often found poetry to be a most distasteful form hero-worship. Many poets seem to be lauded more for their lives than their works. Of course there has been some truly talented poets throughout history such as Dickinson and Patrick Kavanagh but as with many of the arts most come across as pretentious egotistical feckless and talentless.

This is true, but the same could be said about any of the arts, no?

many any. six of one, half dozen of the other

[Potemkin]

Also Li Bai sounds like someone I should look into and I am disappointed in myself that I haven't yet.

I can also recommend the work of Du Fu, and Wang Wei. I have even amused myself in my spare time by writing 'translations' of some of Wang Wei's poems (I used a literal character-by-character translation as a crib). Doing so has given me profound respect for the Tang Dynasty Chinese poets. Those guys really knew what they were doing.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Li Bai is the William Shakespeare of China. No, he was not one of 'them'.

But isn't William Shakespere the old timey version of a lame Hollywood director?

[Potemkin]

In what way, Jessup?

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Cheap plots that appeal to the masses