[Proctor]

Who here believes in fate or destiny? Or 'an eternal plan' for that matter?

Personally, I like to think that I am in control of my own life.

[Ixa]

Who here believes in fate or destiny? Or 'an eternal plan' for that matter?

Personally, I like to think that I am in control of my own life.

Do you want my opinion? Only a fool or a madman would believe in fate.

[TomThumbKOP]

Nothing happens without a reason.

Not true at the quantum level. There is randomness in the world.

[Siberian Fox]

eh... this topic seems to have "vanished"... some glitch... just testing.. ignor me...

[Yeddi]

We always do Fox

hmmm better contribute. I sometimes like to think i'm in control [my house of sticks is finally built!] othertimes i'd prefer to think something else had decided it for me, someone else to blame [There was no fire there when i started building, why does god hate me (real question is why wouldn't he)]

I like to believe all up though that there is something out there looking out for me, helping me out. A security blanket, i like to think that someone is going with it with me, i also thinkn that deep down i know that i'm going alone, people suck but i don't like to speak those things, confirm my fears. Bah.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

I don't think there is an eternal plan, but I find it good to believe in it anyway 'cos it makes me feel better. But that's just me.

[Edit: WOW, I just realised this is the 8888th post made on the PoFo. Says a lot for this topic,eh?]

[Boondock Saint]

Fate?

Destiny?

Yes and no.

What do I eat for breakfast ... I control this, is it eggs? Cereal? A muffin perhaps ... or just have four cups of coffee and not get hungry till 5 PM?

Will I die? Yep, its my fate to die, nothing I can do to prevent it. I can think, I can do, I can reason with as many people or trees as I please ... in the end, its my destiny to die.

I think some people are destined to be great or terrible people while most of us dont matter enough to have such a fate.

Stalin was destined to be the leader he was. Hitler the leader he was. Napolean, Ghenghis Kahn, and down the list ... they were all destined to be who they were. Hell, the field hand who died one thousand years ago from some disease before he married was destined to do so ... he had no real choice in the matter ...

One day this planet that we humans think is so important will cease to exist. It is the planets destiny. This entire solar system and galaxy that we know so little about will one day be gone ... that is its fate.

So yes, I believe that fate and destiny are just as much a part of us as our own ability to control the little things. Generally speaking what we can control is of little importance and in the end will matter not at all.

But ... I had two eggs, some sausage and a hashbrown with white toast and grape jelly for breakfast with a large cup of coffee. I am happy with my choice and I am content with my fate.

[Proctor]

Yeddi, I'd be a lot more comfortable without some 'greater power' looking out for me. If he was, how would I know which of my great achievements are from my own doing?

But on the main question, it seems so stupid to believe in something like that. That I have no more control over my life than what I eat for breakfast? It just sounds wrong. I mean, its my life, why shouldn't I control it?

[the SovieT]

well i myself dont believe in fate or any kind of destiny...

and this isnt just about me, it is about everyother person taht claims to be marxist as well...

we marxist believe in teh "cause-efect" theory...
this is, something (efect) only happens or its created by something else (cause)
yet not only that happend after the cause is necessarly efect of the same.. for example, the night comes after the day, yet the night isnt a efect of teh day nor is the day the cause of teh night...
evry cause as a efect, this is if other cause doesnt cut the former cause (sounds a litle complicated, but after a wile you will understand)
for example, if we press the trigger of a loaded rifle the bullet will necesasrly go out... yet if the poweder of the rifle is wet, or the bullet is somehow stuck the efect wount happen... so this leaves us to the conclusion that in order to a cause have a efect it is necessary a condition...
it hapens sometimes that some causes have a motive...
yet the motive isnt capable of making the efect by itself...

some philosophers think that there is also a casual efect...
wich is tehre are something that dont have causes, just happen...
this is wrong, everything, every reaction has a cause...
everything is a efect of some cause....

yet one cannot think "why" for not all efects have a motive...

or at least this are my 2 cent....

(all other marxists please correct me if i am wrong)

[Ymir]

I believe in 'fate' and I have come to this conclusion from a materialist basis. I believe that all things happen by cause and effect. If the reality in which I exist is based on this, then my entire life is only a reaction to prior events. Everything happening in my life, is only based on actions before it.

Because of this I have also dismissed 'Free Will'. I will give an example.

According to 'Free Will', if I wanted to this instant I could jump to the moon. I tried, I could not. I stayed in front of my computer. The reason we have no free will is because the universe has laws and restrictions. I do not have the physical requirements to jump to the moon. I am controlled by the laws of the universe. My will is controlled by my brain, which is matter, and is controlled by the laws of the universe.

Do you understand?

[Ixa]

I believe in 'fate' and I have come to this conclusion from a materialist basis. I believe that all things happen by cause and effect. If the reality in which I exist is based on this, then my entire life is only a reaction to prior events. Everything happening in my life, is only based on actions before it.

Because of this I have also dismissed 'Free Will'. I will give an example.

According to 'Free Will', if I wanted to this instant I could jump to the moon. I tried, I could not. I stayed in front of my computer. The reason we have no free will is because the universe has laws and restrictions. I do not have the physical requirements to jump to the moon. I am controlled by the laws of the universe. My will is controlled by my brain, which is matter, and is controlled by the laws of the universe.

Do you understand?

You are right in not believing in free will. You may call it "fate", but I call it "accident". There is no real difference if you define fate in terms of cause and effect.

However, everything is NOT cause and effect, and there is no free will. Mathematical theorems prove that there is randomness and chaos without cause and effect.

[Proctor]

I hear ya Ymir. That all our decisions are based on our previous experiences. And all our experiences are made from previous decisions. Going all the way back to when we where to little to make our own decisions and our parents made them for us.

I'd thought about that quite a while back. I'd just never applied it to the Fate question. Which was stupid, since it practically is that question.

Just ignore me while I ponder....*ponders*

[Ymir]

"However, everything is NOT cause and effect, and there is no free will. Mathematical theorems prove that there is randomness and chaos without cause and effect."

Please elaborate with this.

[grinner]

Environment, circumstances and decisions lead our lives. Fate and destiny are what we like to pretend we are chasing during the journey of life when in reality it is our dreams we truely chase.

[jaakko]

Environment, circumstances and decisions lead our lives. Fate and destiny are what we like to pretend we are chasing during the journey of life when in reality it is our dreams we truely chase.

And our dreams just pop out from nowhere? Dream gene?

As I said before, I don't believe in fate or destiny. I believe in causality, which leads to the conclusion that development has a course (not aim). Therefore I'm a determinist, in the dialectical materialist meaning of the term.

[grinner]

Yes develompment has a course but we alter that by our actions daily. If we could really let go and let God, we'd not have to go to work or pay bills or even go to the church that told us to let go and let God. Pursuit of dreams is the only thing that catches them.

On this subject, do soalmates exist? It's certainly romantic to believe it. I don't pretend to know how heaven works but my mother passed away a few years ago. Mom and Dad were deeply in love. Now Dad is deeply in love with another woman. This is a normal and healthy thing and she's a great lady. Is it fate or destiny that will place him with one or the other or both in heaven?