[SE23]

I have recently discovered the third position I am interested in the following.

1) Why hasn't the third position been publically acknowledged ?

2) Would a nation that accepted the third position as a government allow for any immigration, even if it was on the basis of a meritocracy, those who would serve the nation and people.

3) Could the third position ever make a comeback, especially as socialism has been deemed to fail and has been entwined by the liberal capitalists, and people are denouncing capitalism, as evident in the middle east, democracy is failing.

[slybaldguy]

I have recently discovered the third position I am interested in the following.

1) Why hasn't the third position been publically acknowledged ?

2) Would a nation that accepted the third position as a government allow for any immigration, even if it was on the basis of a meritocracy, those who would serve the nation and people.

3) Could the third position ever make a comeback, especially as socialism has been deemed to fail and has been entwined by the liberal capitalists, and people are denouncing capitalism, as evident in the middle east, democracy is failing.

1) Why would it be acknowledged? It doesn't serve the interests of the neo-liberal elite to publicise an alternative which would counter their objectives.

2) I think there would be some scope for immigration among people of the same race, but that's as far as it would go.

3) It's highly unlikely that there will be a third position revival in the west. It is a but too esoteric/academic for the ordinary pleb to follow. The general public are completely turned off by any kind of ideology and would struggle to engage with anything longer than a few soundbites.

[SE23]

That does pretty much sum it up. Thank you

I was wondering however that does all third position ideology, have to purely racially based; obviously not stating that there should be levels of immigration as seen in Europe today, but having a level of immigration of 1/2%, would be deemed as wrong ?

[Oakwood]

I actually didn’t know what the Third Position was till I just looked at the Wikipedia article about it. Although Wikipedia is known to be quite unreliable there wasn’t much else there that seemed any more informative.

I have to say I don’t like the sound of it really. Is the point about giving the means of production to the most effective producers in society meant to mean you give the machines, buildings and land etc to the working man? I don’t think it would work like that, those people who are given the capital would more than likely stop being the working people and take on the role of the capitalist business owner. Either that or employ someone who knows how to run a business and employ all the capital efficiently. If the latter situation came about, the people who were really running the businesses (the managers) would start making demands and saying that their skill is more valuable than the workman’s, and it actually is kind of true- it’s not hard to find a labourer but someone who actually knows how to run a business, come up with innovative ideas and delegate responsibility to the right people in the right areas are a rarer find. They would group together and make demands which would ultimately be met, or the workmen would have to step in and fill the old managers position, which would set off a kind of cycle of the same thing.

As for the segregation of people, you might have seen some of my other posts and guessed that I wouldn’t be for that as I’m an internationalist/integrationist. Segregation along racial lines can’t be good as there’s nothing you can do about your ethnic make up and if we were physically separated by these characteristics people would continue to diverge in their culture and beliefs. This would no doubt lead to more conflict which would probably have some racial feeling to it, and as I said, it’s not good to be at odds with each other over something that you can’t change. Culture on the other hand isn’t something that can’t be changed. British style multiculturalism is something that I would see stamped out in a heartbeat due to its hypocrisy impracticability and adverse effects on integration.

But to answer your questions

1) Probably not enough people believe in it to want to spread the idea further

2) It’s likely that they would have a zero immigration from certain countries/ethnicities policy, but would allow some under exceptional circumstances. I wouldn’t imagine that many people wouldn’t want to move into one of the countries they are blacklisted in though.

3) People have denounced capitalism forever and in quite large numbers by the looks of things but it hasn’t done much to deter its use, or if it has, it makes a comeback. I agree that democracy is failing, I actually don’t like the current style of democracy in the west. It’s like a pantomime or something. No one even understands politics, what the different parties stand for or even just a few of the potential effects of their policies so why are we giving them the power to decide who will run the country? People who control the media are basically the ones who decide who will be elected. God knows if the elections are actually fair either. We do need the ability to remove corrupt and inept governments for sure, but under the current system people are pretty much indoctrinated from birth into a certain way of thinking and they don’t have the supposed freedom they think they do. Democracy is a way of hiding the lack of freedom which is inevitable in every country. Anyway, I doubt the Third Position has much of a chance to make a comeback, I reckon the the communist-like policies might gain some ground though in the current climate.

[slybaldguy]

That does pretty much sum it up. Thank you

I was wondering however that does all third position ideology, have to purely racially based; obviously not stating that there should be levels of immigration as seen in Europe today, but having a level of immigration of 1/2%, would be deemed as wrong ?

In a TP society economic immigration would be regarded as immoral and would be made obsolete. I can only envisage a TP society possibly accepting short-term migration from neighbouring countries in the event of natural disaster. I imagine that ordinarily travel between neighbouring countries would be restricted in order to preserve the national cultures.

[Fasces]

This is assuming that modern patterns of economic growth are necessary or desirable - many Third Positionists embrace sustainable, no-growth economic planning, or even a contraction in the labor force which can be used to increase the value of labor (and thus wages, improving quality of life as seen in England circa Black Plague) and spur technological development (as productivity of capital will have to increase to cover the shortage of labor).

We have many Third Positionists on this forum (though the major proponent, Preston Cole, was recently banned for a less than polite outburst at the moderating team upon receiving a red card). They tend to congregate in the Paternalism & Corporatism subforum.

[Figlio di Moros]

If the latter situation came about, the people who were really running the businesses (the managers) would start making demands and saying that their skill is more valuable than the workman’s, and it actually is kind of true- it’s not hard to find a labourer but someone who actually knows how to run a business, come up with innovative ideas and delegate responsibility to the right people in the right areas are a rarer find.

that's actually pretty false. Sure, not everyone's a Ted turner or Warren Buffet, but then not every electrician's a Nikola Tesla. Business Degrees are incredibly easy and practically pointless beyond having one; anyone who can dig a ditch can tell someone how to dig a ditch and delegate how to do it. Anyone who can answer phones can handle paperwork, payrolls, and manage employees. However important the position may be, administration isn't neuroscience.