[Andropov]

Should the Far-right incorporate the psychdelic experience into its discourse? Why or why not? If it should, how should it go about doing this?

[Orestes]

Totally should, in order to politically neutralise itself with recurring flashbacks.


Seriously though, I don't think many of your camp would see that as beneficial in any way, if you aim to imbue people with martial spirit and all that stuff. Ernst Junger dabbled in LSD and was actually friends with Albert Hoffman (he details his experiences in Anniherungen-Drogen und Rausch), but even he thought it should remain a thing for the elite. Same with Evola.

[Andropov]

Really? I knew Evola considered them a potentially useful tool. Here is his writing on the subject.

"An effective use of these drugs would presuppose a preliminary ”catharsis”, that is, the proper neutralization of the individual unconscious substratum that is activated; then the images and senses could refer to a spiritual reality of a higher order, rather than being reduced to a subjective, visionary orgy. One should emphasize that the instances of this higher use of drugs were preceeded not only by periods of preparation and purification of the subject, but also that the process was properly guided through the contemplation of certain symbols. Sometimes ”consecrations” were also prescribed for protective purposes. There are accounts of certain indigenous communities in Central and South America whose members, only under the influence of peyote, hear the sculpted figures on ancient temple ruins ”speak”, revealing their meaning in terms of spiritual enlightenment. The importance of the individuals attitude clearly appears from the completely different effects of mescaline on two contemporary writers who have experimented with drugs, Aldous Huxley and RH Zaehner. And it is a fact in the case of hallucinogens like opium and in part, haschisch, this active assumption of the experience that is essential from our point of view is generally excluded.

In general, one must keep in mind that drug use even for a spiritual end, that is, to catch glimpses of transcendence, has its price. How drugs produce certain psychic effects has not yet been determined by modern science. It is said that some, like LSD, destroy certain brain cells (Not actually the case; this was disproven after he died.). One point is certain: Habitual use of drugs brings a certain psychic disorganization: one should substitute for them the power of attaining analogous states through one’s own means. Therefore, when one has chosen a path based on the maximum unification of all one’s psychic faculties, these drawbacks must be kept firmly in mind."

But I was not aware he had tried them himself. Where did you learn this?

[Orestes]

Probably in Goodrick - Clarke's The Black Sun, but I'm not sure right now. I seem to remember that it happened during his early phase when he was yet more of an artist and occultist, later he came to see drugs as the easy way, so he ditched them.

[Andropov]

Evola is right. Ram Dass traveled throughout India and many times gave monks and gurus LSD with no noticeable effect; they were "already there", so to speak, having reached transcendence through the force of will alone.

Something else to consider:

Terrence McKenna, one of the world's top psychonauts, praised fascism (or at least "where it came from") as being part of a global archaic revival that rejected outright the modern world and its values. In his view, fascism and the carefree long-hair, barefoot hippie worldview were opposite sides of the same coin.

[Fasces]

Why are psychedelic drug users so evangelical?

[Andropov]

Evangelical? Hardly. If you don't think the idea that you can take a few micrograms of a chemical and within a few hours have life-changing, worldview-shattering experiences is fascinating, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Fasces]

Nonsense. Just about every chronic user of psychedelic drugs that I have known, particularly on this forum, also spends a great deal of time discussing not only whether it should be legal, but whether it should be mandatory. Personally, while a trip may be fun, I cannot see it as anything else than recreation. No, it shouldn't be mandatory. Frankly, given what psychedelics can do with regards to triggering other disorders, their recreational usage should be illegal - not mandatory.

Nor do I buy into this idea that they make individuals better thinkers - I am wholly unimpressed by the thoughts and manifestos of the drug-addled minds and so-called philosophers. Their only common theme is their banality.

[Brio]

Why are psychedelic drug users so evangelical?

We all aren't though. I indulge in psychedelic drugs every few months, yet I'm not trying to convert people to the experience or make their use mandatory. It seems that those people already on the fringe (i.e. Kasu, Andropov) after discovering psychedelic drugs are the ones wanting to convert people.

Also, how the psychedelic experience can often be compared to a spiritual/religious experience may have something to do with it.

[Andropov]

Nonsense. Just about every chronic user of psychedelic drugs that I have known, particularly on this forum, also spends a great deal of time discussing not only whether it should be legal, but whether it should be mandatory. Personally, while a trip may be fun, I cannot see it as anything else than recreation. No, it shouldn't be mandatory. Frankly, given what psychedelics can do with regards to triggering other disorders, their recreational usage should be illegal - not mandatory.

Nor do I buy into this idea that they make individuals better thinkers - I am wholly unimpressed by the thoughts and manifestos of the drug-addled minds and so-called philosophers. Their only common theme is their banality.

I know the cure for your views; more psychedelics. I take it you've never taken 8 grams psilocybin cubensis in the middle of a thunderstorm on the peak of a mountain at midnight and have a lightning bolt shatter a fucking tree literally in half 15 feet in front of you. Do that and tell me with a straight face, or whatever the Internet equivalent would be, that "psychedelics are nothing but recreation". I also take it you've never read Aldous Huxley's "Doors of Perception", in which he lays out a fascinating theory of the human mind as an exclusionary organ rather than a creative one; meaning, the mind filters unnecessary information in order to keep us from being overwhelmed and to allow us to focus on survival and reproduction. According to him, when one takes psychedelics, these filters are lifted, and the user perceives the world as it truly is, infinite.

A .pdf file for anyone interested: http://www.mescaline.com/aldoushuxley-d ... eption.pdf

[Fasces]

I know the cure for your views; more psychedelics.

I also take it you've never read Aldous Huxley's "Doors of Perception", in which he lays out a fascinating theory of the human mind as an exclusionary organ rather than a creative one; meaning, the mind filters unnecessary information in order to keep us from being overwhelmed and to allow us to focus on survival and reproduction. According to him, when one takes psychedelics, these filters are lifted, and the user perceives the world as it truly is, infinite.

The world is full of marvelous theories. One making claims about the nature of the universe should have more than just pretty poetry behind it.

[Andropov]

If you'd bother reading the book, you'd know every one of his theories is backed up by huge amounts of science and data.

Mescaline makes the body unable to process sugar for the time it is active (a scientifically proven fact). This renders the filters through which we view the world inactive, since they need sugar to operate. Hence its psychdelic effects.

Psilocybin drastically decreases brain activity, which wouldn't make sense if the brain was a creative organ; it makes perfect sense if Huxley's theory is correct, however.

http://www.labnews.co.uk/news/mind-expa ... -activity/

What is the most psychdelic drugs that you've done in one sitting, just wondering?

[Orestes]

I know the cure for your views; more psychedelics.

I'm liking this thread.

Some more from Julius (Youth, Beats and Right-Wing Anarchists), telling to curb your enthusiasm.

We may, in passing, recall, so as to again establish precise distinctions, that the world of Tradition was also familiar with the “Left-Hand Path” – a path of which we have spoken elsewhere, that includes breaking the law, destruction, and orgiastic experience of various forms, but starting from a positive, sacred and “sacrificial” orientation, “towards what is above,” towards transcendence of all limitation. This is the opposite of searching for violent sensations merely because one is internally beaten and inconsistent, merely in order to prolong the sense of existence in one way or another. This is why the title of Wilson’s book, Ritual in the Dark, is very appropriate: it describes a mode of celebration, within a realm of shadow, without light, what could have had the sense, in a different context, of a rite of transfiguration.

In the same way, the “beats” have often made use of certain drugs, seeking thereby to induce a rupture, an opening, beyond ordinary consciousness. And that, with the best intentions. However, one of the movement’s main representatives, Norman Mailer, has come to recognize the “dice game” implied in the use of drugs. Aside from the “superior lucidity,” from the “new, fresh and original perception of reality, now unknown to common man,” to which some aspire by the use of drugs, there is the danger of “artificial paradises,” of surrendering to forms of ecstatic voluptuousness, intense sensation, and even visions, devoid of any spiritual or revealing content, and followed by depression once one returns to normality, which only aggravates the existential crisis. The determining factor here is the underlying attitude assumed by one’s being itself: this nearly always decides the effect of such drugs, in one sense or another. In attestation of that, one might refer, for instance, to the effects of mescaline, as described by Aldous Huxley (an author already acquainted with traditional metaphysics), who felt able to draw an analogy with certain experiences of high mysticism, as opposed to the totally banal effects described by Zaehner (the author whom we have already cited in our criticism of Cuttat), who wanted to repeat Huxley’s experiences, with the aim of “controlling” them, but starting from a completely different personal equation and attitude. However, given that the “beat” is a profoundly traumatized being, who has thrown himself into a confused search for “kicks,” one must not expect anything much positive from the use of drugs. The other alternative will almost certainly prevail, thus reversing the initial apparent gains.[3] Moreover, the problem is not resolved by sporadic escapist openings into “Reality,” following which one finds oneself plunged back into a life deprived of meaning. That the essential premises for venturing on this ground are inexistent is obvious from the fact that “beats” and “hipsters” were for the largest part youngsters, lacking the necessary maturity and avoiding all self-discipline on principle.

I agree with Fasces (not about psychedelics being made illegal, but against them being made mandatory). Most people today simply aren't in the right, initial mental conditions for it which Evola talks about, and so the effects might prove disastrous if you really wanted to forcibly administer substances to wide groups just like that. Would certainly be hilarious to watch though ..

[Fasces]

Mescaline makes the body unable to process sugar for the time it is active (a scientifically proven fact). This renders the filters through which we view the world inactive, since they need sugar to operate. Hence its psychdelic effects.

Psilocybin drastically decreases brain activity, which wouldn't make sense if the brain was a creative organ; it makes perfect sense if Huxley's theory is correct, however.

By that logic, we should make suicide mandatory.

What is the most psychdelic drugs that you've done in one sitting, just wondering?

400 µg

[Figlio di Moros]

Nor do I buy into this idea that they make individuals better thinkers- Their only common theme is their banality.

How many far right thinkers, Fasces, ones you might admite, have experimented with Drugs? Julius Evola, Guenon, who else? Not to mention, the Watson & Crick story.

[Fasces]

There is a distinction between experimentation and mandatory usage, is there not? Shall we pretend that illicit substances have negative qualities, now, and that far less than most users turn to them for entertainment, not breadth. In any case, I harbor great doubts that psychedelics are responsible for their thoughts, and that we have to thank psychedelics for fascist thought. Evola was a thinker and he indulged. His indulgence did not make him a thinker.

[Figlio di Moros]

I agree, there's a difference between recreation, experimental, and spiritual use- however, Evola did credit his usage as a part of his spiritual development. I'm not in support of mandatory usage, anymore than I mandate all people should be forced to drink and drive; I am saying, context matters. Using entheogens for spiritual preparation, when prepared for, can have a strong effect on developing your spiritual and mental outlook.

[Varg]

Why people use Evola in a discussion about fascism? Evola was not a fascist, he was a tradionalist. Psychedelic drugs are not compatible with fascism just like anything that is a hindrance for the individual to serve his state.

[Wolke]

Good thread, Andropov. While I am not a fascist, I think the answer to your question is in the affirmative. For people who are open to spiritual experiences but are not in a position to submit to years of spiritual discipline in order to attain mystical unity with the Godhead, I would recommend the ingestion of 200-400 gamma of LSD, in conjunction with the appropriate meditation techniques. This can evoke what W.T. Stace called an 'extrovertive' mystical experience, in which the eternal Self goes outward into the external world and finds the One there, as distinct from the more sustainable introvertive mystical state, in which one finds the One at the bottom of the Self. LSD does not in itself produce mystical states of consciousness, but by expanding awareness, breaking down character armour and deconstructing rigid mental structures, it can be highly conducive to them. LSD can also be used to overcome the fear of death.

Needless to say, psychedelics should be regulated and used only for spiritual purposes by an intellectual elite consisting of artists, philosophers, theologians, poets, scientists, etc. I don't think most people would benefit from mystical experiences, whether attained through meditation or the use of psychedelic substances.

By the way, where did you get your information about Terence McKenna?