[Cookie Monster]

Mercury is a no go.

Luna, Mars, Europa, Ganymedes, Titan and perhaps the atmosphere of Venus are currently the most interesting places for colonisation.
Currently the best and most vital place to colonise is our moon. It will be our stepping stone to Mars, the main asteroid belt and eventually the moons orbiting the gas giants. Otherwise visits to other bodies will remain a costly adventure limited to probes and robots.

[Potemkin]

Luna, Mars, Europa, Ganymedes, Titan and perhaps the atmosphere of Venus are currently the most interesting places for colonisation.
Currently the best and most vital place to colonise is our moon. It will be our stepping stone to Mars, the main asteroid belt and eventually the moons orbiting the gas giants. Otherwise visits to other bodies will remain a costly adventure limited to probes and robots.

Indeed. People take the Moon for granted; they don't seem to realise how lucky we are to have one of the planets right on our doorstep. And the Moon is a planet - it's bigger than Mercury, Pluto (which is now no longer classified as a planet) or almost any of the satellites of Jupiter or Saturn. The Earth-Moon system is actually a bi-planetary system rather than a planet and its satellite. And that planet is right on our doorstep - it takes only three days flight time to get there, and that was with 1960s technology. It's as though somebody up there wants us to colonise the Solar System, and has parked a planet right on our doorstep as a pretty big hint.

[Cookie Monster]

I never looked at the Earth-Moon relation as a bi-planetary system, but it's very fitting.

It's as though somebody up there wants us to colonise the Solar System, and has parked a planet right on our doorstep as a pretty big hint.

Who knows, perhaps Wernher von Braun was the real Son of God...

[Orestes]

Uhm guys, I'm affraid one major factor is really getting left out here


[youtube]4lJAw_BtM2g[/youtube]

[Rei Murasame]

Selfish Nazis. They go to the moon and leave Japan and Italy out of the loop. That is not gratitude!

Absolutely typical. What happened to "we're all in this together"?

[Preston Cole]

Absolutely typical. What happened to "we're all in this together"?

Flushed down the toilet when some fascist states spit in the face of their allies. Granted, it's not always the case, but alliances between nationalist states don't always go as planned.

[Rei Murasame]

There I was only half-joking, but you seem to have supplied a real example. I can imagine that the Transylvania affair must've been a real mess, for sure.

[Preston Cole]

Really messy. Though I'm not really being fair toward the Axis here. The issue wasn't the fact that three fascist states turned against us Romanians; the issue was the highly undisciplined, provocative and revanchist behavior of Horthyist Hungary. We kicked Hungarian ass in the First War and finally won our long lost Transylvanian soil, so of course Germany and Hungary were out to make us "pay." We should have taken up arms against the Axis on the Allied side, but that wasn't possible. Things were made worse by the autistic Hungarian regime which sought to slander us at every turn, becoming a nuisance to Hitler himself at times. I'm not going to comment on the Hungarians anymore because they make my blood boil, not just for annexing Transylvania, but for the scummy things they started doing afterward.

Anyway, nationalist alliances always come with the risk of intra-alliance conflict, like the Serb-Croatian and Romanian-Hungarian ones when two neighboring states are involved, especially when one of the states is constantly on-edge looking for a fight (guess who). In that regard, I have no regret saying that fascist juntas have an in-built weakness, but I do really regret saying that communist alliances are more stable because they avoid all the revanchist crap that can bring a fascist alliance down.

[Orestes]

communist alliances are more stable because they avoid all the revanchist crap that can bring a fascist alliance down

Wouldn't this be just an accidental occurence, though ? Post WWII, USSR was the unquestionable arbiter overlord, vitally interested in peace between the satelites for strategic reasons, so things may have been easily swept under the rug. For example there happened a few-day border skirmish in June 1945 between Poland and Czechoslovakia (also with origins back from roughly 1918), which remained low-down mostly thanks to Stalin's pressure on both countries to settle, and the last of those border issues were officially resolved only as late as 1958.

Similarily the more Soviets weakened, the more nationalist Eastern Bloc members could afford to be, in reasonable confines.

[starman2003]

Mercury is much smaller than the Earth's Moon

No way. Mercury is bigger than the moon. And it has a number of good points--temps aren't so bad at high latitude, there's frozen polar water, plenty of solar energy (whereas Mars gets far less) and (presumably) abundant he-3 for fusion.

[Potemkin]

:lol: No way. Mercury is bigger than the moon. And it has a number of good points--temps aren't so bad at high latitude, there's frozen polar water, plenty of solar energy (whereas Mars gets far less) and (presumably) abundant he-3 for fusion.

*hastily checks Wikipedia* Goddammit, you're right! Still, it's bigger than Pluto. Which isn't a planet any more. Alright, alright, so you were right and I was wrong. No need to rub it in. Bah! *goes off in a huff*

[Bosnjak]

Fascism requires the competition of Nations. And the absolute competition between nations is according fascist theory WAR, it measures all aspects of a nation (Size, Weapons, Willingness to fight....)

We are out of the competition age.


The world is growing together over the Internet

[starman2003]

Fascism requires the competition of Nations.

It strives to make the nation stronger in relation to others, with a view toward dominating them. The ultimate goal isn't perpetual competition but hegemony.

We are out of the competition age.

I wouldn't say so.

The world is growing together over the Internet.

IMO that's one factor helping pave the way for eventual unity but it's far from enough.

[Bosnjak]

But what is a nation, you can change your nationality within 1-5 Years.

It is harder and harder to define Nation, today.


Is it blood? some bosnians grew up in the west do not speak the language, or have the passport.
Whereas a Black Immigrant speaks well the language works in the country and owns bosnian passport.

Who belongs more to the nation?

I wouldn't say so.

You are right.

IMO that's one factor helping pave the way for eventual unity but it's far from enough.

Also right there need more factors for such a drastic change. without some huge turmoils will it not happen.

[starman2003]

It is harder and harder to define Nation, today.

Very good news from a pan-human" perspective.

without such huge turmoils will it not happen.

It'll take upheavals to break democracy and lead to a more hegemonist system in the first place.

[liberallad]

Wasn't this the same reasoning that made slavery in the United States okay? Just make an exception, "blacks aren't human... and neither are the yellows", and soon enough you have yourself a case of eugenics. Racism arises from the fact that people believe that their race is a cut above the rest, and thus they are more human than everyone else(or as per many Supremacist's logic, the only humans). A worldwide pan-humanist movement is extremely unrealistic and frankly, far too idealistic.

[starman2003]

I certainly don't envisage global unity coming about due to a "pan-humanist movement." To a considerable degree, it'll have to be imposed, but not by racists, no way.

[Rich]

Frankly I've never been able to work out what fascists are / were about. I don't think they knew either. The best European example of fascism was the Nazis, because all the other European fascisms were jokes as great powers and could only tag along with the Germans and make fools of themselves or keep their heads down like the Spanish. And if Nazism is the best you can offer, dear oh dear! On the one hand they said that war was wonderful and on the other they whinged that the Jews had created another world war. Make you're fucking mind up!. Its like the fire bombing of Dresden, you'd think our modern day fascists would celebrate this steely example of Spartan ruthlessness, or the Red Army raping their way across Eastern Germany, the sort of behaviour that any Roman would have taken pride in, but no no, its whine whine, whinge, whinge, its not fair! Shut the fuck up for God's sake!

As for global Pan Human fascism, its ridiculous. The Neanderthals are dead, until the machines become sentient or the aliens show their face, who are we going to fight? Sure we can all sit down, hold hands and sing Khumbai Ah, but that's that absolute opposite of fascism.

[starman2003]

..the Jews had created another world war...

Face it, the common people, who have the most to lose, don't like war. In the real world of politics, even the most militaristic state must make it seem somebody else is to blame. The US invaded Iraq ostensibly because of nonexistent WMD; any system is bound to be manipulative.

And if Nazism is the best you can offer, dear oh dear!

There's no way it can revive, especially not in the US. The problem with european fascist states was that they were too small, and/or too religious, to do what fascism is really supposed to do. Essentially fascism meant a revival of Caesarism, and Mussolini said Italy should be a conqueror like ancient Rome. But Italy just wasn't strong enough, in part because in the land of the pope, fascist values made limited headway. The US could well be different, after crises break its democracy. It'll have adequate power to be a hegemon, and can't be racist. If all races can constitute a nation in America, someday they could worldwide. The raison d'etre of global unity is permanent peace and solving of global environmental and economic problems. Machines--our own creations--could hardly become our enemies--surely we'e not so stupid as to allow it. Aliens, on the other hand, could be enemies someday--real or perceived--quite possibly real, given all the confrontations reported in UFO literature. Right now it's covered up but a future regime, with a much different agenda, could have a different policy.

[Andropov]

On why unification should occur, I recommend Kropotkin's evolutionary theories; he puts out the idea that cooperation to survive against the environment is the most important factor when it comes to a species' survival.