[Benjamin Noyles]

I am pretty sure there is some general maintenance going on, posts are dissapearing.

[Fasces]

A phenomenon of music known as 'military pop' or 'martial industrial' has very obvious neofascist and military themes, and the bands themselves are often associated closely with modern fascist movements or beliefs, or so political opponents claim. Regardless, it represents a very modern, and interesting, industrial brand of music that is nationalistic, outside the usual neo-nazi punk.

[youtube]hsIN3CA5wgo[/youtube]

[youtube]U4332jB-czI[/youtube]

[youtube]cRulFjMAWIQ[/youtube]

[youtube]d1tfK_NQ5DY[/youtube]

[Snip. -Lok]

[youtube]jeQtdO4ljwk[/youtube]

[I had to cut one video out, since it contained a bit too much Nazi glorification. While I do not disapprove posting videos of bands that have been accused of Nazi sympathies because of their tendency to use the imagery of historical totalitarian movements, very direct references such as the video by Schutzstaffel posted, are not welcome (the band being, quite probably, illegal in Germany). Regards, and trusting that the users use their own discretion, -Lok.]

[Preston Cole]

Ah, yes, Von Thronstahl and Blood Axis. I'm pretty sure the former produced some soundtracks dedicated to fascist and nationalist figures, and I also used one of their songs in a video of mine (shameless plug ).

[youtube]C4fvA_4Tf_0[/youtube]

Von Thronstahl is also intensely used in Youtube user Evropae's videos, which depicts fascist, traditionalist and anti-modern themes. So, yes, these bands are highly neo-fascist in character.

[telluro]

Tied closely also with neoclassical and neofolk bands. And it's not a very recent trend either. They're not the main genres I listen to, but some bands are very good.

http://www.last.fm/tag/martial%20industrial/wiki
http://www.last.fm/tag/neoclassical/wiki
http://www.last.fm/tag/neofolk/wiki

Some of my favourites.

[youtube]8vYJjpQzJLQ[/youtube]

[youtube]NmiYkyiAMuE[/youtube]

[youtube]cA6qV3h8bZg[/youtube]

[youtube]2JVF-VBei4k[/youtube]


But more typically I'd go for something darker and more ambient-y (and this following band in particular is considered martial industrial as well).

[youtube]cEIyv4RZhIk[/youtube]

[Jackal]

I tend to draw inspiration from Dubstep, one of my favorite genres of music. It seems to have a very revolutionary right, industrial sound. However, I doubt this is the intention of the creators.

[youtube]_3PAaTeRxYk[/youtube]
[youtube]pbOcYdEy-cQ[/youtube]
[youtube]PFxluoP4E0k[/youtube]
[youtube]BhVzJ9mR48E[/youtube]

[Melodramatic]

Purely skimming this thread I can say that with such musical taste, and a possible intent of forcing it, it is unsurprising that fascist ideologies has so little influence in most of the west.

[Jackal]

Purely skimming this thread I can say that with such musical taste, and a possible intent of forcing it, it is unsurprising that fascist ideologies has so little influence in most of the west.

Well, I can admit that I do not like the martial industrial music that was recently posted. I do like, however, Romantic-era classical music and Neoclassical. The electronic music I guess is due to my generation.

However, basing the success of any ideology on taste in music is purely ignorant.

[Melodramatic]

However, basing the success of any ideology on taste in music is purely ignorant.

Fascist propaganda. it is a proven fact that bad music equals bad ideology

[Fasces]

Eh. It is better than Sid Vicious, or country-western.

[telluro]

I like the thrown notion that "musical taste" as in which genres of music one likes is universal and obvious. It makes one seem clever while not actually saying anything.

That said, music that is only or primarily politically motivated is rarely good music.

[Benjamin Noyles]

Took BB code off please remove post

[Benjamin Noyles]

That said, music that is only or primarily politically motivated is rarely good music.
I like the thrown notion that "musical taste" as in which genres of music one likes is universal and obvious. It makes one seem clever while not actually saying anything.

That said, music that is only or primarily politically motivated is rarely good music.

That is true, but you would be very hard pressed to find any group that considers itself seriously political, Most Martial/aeisthetic fascistic bands are like this not just because the artist is at a cultural level but because they are embarassed to associate with any political groups. Even with politicised ones like Von Thronstahl, you get the feeling they are messing around half of the time. for example their covers of children of the revolution and they walked in line, clearly for the lulz.

To testify to the truth of your statement there is a party here in the united kingdom called the BNP with its own (nearly sunk) record label 'Great white records' that actually produces white nationalist indie cheese pop not to different t unite against racism antifascist concert
[youtube]xoRCvxfaCEU[/youtube]

In my view however all forms of art are in some way political, and I would argue fascism has been more sucessful on that front than it has in politics.

It is a proven fact that bad music equals bad ideology

Does good music mean good ideology as well? On what grounds? I appriciate you are joking but the satire is a bit hollow if it is based on a lie.

I will also say as a music snob that there are better examples of Matrial Indstrial out there, I am also mortified we have had no neo folk! no EBM! no noise! no.. whatever the hell it is where you remaster old stuff! what ther hell is this? I am fixing this right now

Neo-Folk
[youtube]r5NIMQOu9yY[/youtube]
EBM
[youtube]6X0xSUIQ-IA[/youtube]
Aforementioned Martial pop
[youtube]zXx00xUSocQ[/youtube]
Revivalist
[youtube]mceelSIPTsc[/youtube]
noise
[youtube]e2uwu9b0HRA[/youtube]
And drumfolk! how did I forget drumfolk?
[youtube]g6EAo4ZWfU4[/youtube]

[Preston Cole]

Eh, I'm more of an industrial-electro and industrial-metal type. Neo-folk and patriotic songs with noble messages are all good and actually desired in a nationalist state, but a certain amount of headbanging and dancing is needed to stir up the youthful masses. The way I see it, fascism should most appropriately advocate hard, dark music to instill its values in young individuals, so a combination of entertainment industrial, electro and metal, and a variety of patriotic, more peaceful and serene tunes to be played during important military parades and operas should be backed by the state.

[youtube]ogLwHEPyXBE[/youtube]

[telluro]

Since a Laibach song was posted, it has to be noted that to all intents and purposes Laibach use a totalitarian aesthetic to satirize and to awaken sensibility against totalitarianism. This at least has been their claim throughout.

I like me some electro-industrial and harsh ebm occassionally.

The following might be in the same vein as Laibach as far as intentions go, but I like them occassionally.

[youtube]NveRsaFfvPQ[/youtube] [youtube]dAQyDgKcZXU[/youtube]

[Benjamin Noyles]

Since a Laibach song was posted, it has to be noted that to all intents and purposes Laibach use a totalitarian aesthetic to satirize and to awaken sensibility against totalitarianism. This at least has been their claim throughout.

That has never been their claim. All due credit to them they have maintained their artistic integrity for decades, nobody has any idea what they stand for. Even when they appear to be dismissing their politics it is a quenstion of whether they are triple bluffing of quadrouple bluffing. You can also use a simmilar argument against a great deal of the music here that also exploits the fascistic and militant aeisthetic.

This does not matter, we judge the content as self evident truth regardless of motive, that is the point of any art form.

[telluro]

Wrong impression then. It has been claimed about them, to be sure.

[Benjamin Noyles]

Wrong impression then. It has been claimed about them, to be sure.

By many of their anti-fascist fans and advocates.
That is the point, everyone reads what they want to into it and they get a wider audience. By stating what they were explicitly they would only stand to lose.

[Lokakyy]

By many of their anti-fascist fans and advocates.

"We are fascists as much as Hitler was a painter."

Also, they have featured artwork by anti-fascist and communist dada artist John Heartfield in their record covers.

[telluro]

To answer Bejamin, I looked up a few Laibach interviews, because I had the impression that they explicitly declared themselves as satirizers of totalitarianism.

What do you make of this interview?

http://www.theslovenian.com/articles/ferfolja.htm

[Benjamin Noyles]

Also, they have featured artwork by anti-fascist and communist dada artist John Heartfield in their record covers

Who got in alot of trouble for plagerising German National Socialist artwork during the regime.

This streak carried on when he was in the Irwin collective. It is vague, intentionally so, all I am saying is we can't really know anything for certain. To be honest I think they are taking the piss, yes, but only out of all the people who have these serious debates about them, having some of the greatest intellectuals of our time Like Zizek jump through hoops explaining what he thinks they are, when really nobody knows.

To answer Bejamin, I looked up a few Laibach interviews, because I had the impression that they explicitly declared themselves as satirizers of totalitarianism.

You mean where they sit around all serious and recite essays from the internationalle? tell me then why most of the interviews contradict eachother? it is all bluff so people can nitpick and scream 'they are fascists/anti-fascists'

What do you make of this interview?

In any other instance I would say you can't trust a word any of them say, but it appears to be consistant with the position I gave.
They are artists, but you can't separate art from the politics, in the same why you have all these nihilist artist types who just produce 'ready mades' like the stuff with the bed and the shark in fomaldahide(sic) were all part of a collective group called 'cool britannia' which were a creation of the new labour project and would all hang out with tony blair, and their values reflect this.

When you set yourself up in opposition to what we have now, and lets face it they are endorsing an aeisthetic which is the absolute and totalitarian opposite, that is what they are. Not 'we are fascists' just 'this is what we do'. You can't really say their work is satirical in the affirmative when it is all they produce, a hundred years ago when this sort of art was popular it was taken very seriously then, in particular I am talking about futurism Which Laibach kunst is essentially a revival of. All that has changed is the perception, the artist does not change.

I want to Bring peoples attention to another artist called Alexander Lebedev-Frontov who is explicitly political and deals with this kind of work. He is also a member of the russian national bolshevik party and produces propaganda for them.
It has been indicated that he is also part of the NSK Irwin collective, note the many references to the laibach cross in this film he made
[youtube]7y1BxWw_9sI[/youtube]
his music group is Stalnoy pakt, I think this is for the album Russia's Awakening (note the cross also)