[Goldberk]

So which is it (in you opinion)? North south divide or class culture?

The north/south divide doesn't really exist (apart from in the minds of some northerners), however there is a clear divide between London and the "provinces" as other parts of England are being referred to now. This divide is both cultural and economic.

[Decky]

The north/south divide doesn't really exist (apart from in the minds of some northerners)

I wouldn't say that, plenty of Southerners believe it and are nice and patronising to the Northerners.

Still I speak as a Midlander, both sides refuse to acknowledge that we exist.

however there is a clear divide between London and the "provinces" as other parts of England are being referred to now. This divide is both cultural and economic.

Some good analysis there but I would still include the south east in general with the London types.

[Goldberk]

Still I speak as a Midlander, both sides refuse to acknowledge that we exist.

That's because it's so unspeakably awful.

I would still include the south east in general with the London types.

Perhaps, but many parts of the south east are largely poor, a fact statistics disguise by the presence of a few super rich individuals.

[Decky]

That's because it's so unspeakably awful.

Aren't you a Londoner/Welshman?

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Decky]

A pox on all your regional squabbles, Limey bastards.

How do you guys manage to not hate people who come from 15 miles down the road? It's bizarre.

[Goldberk]

Aren't you a Londoner/Welshman?

I am a Welshman who has lived in Wales, the North East, the South East and London, I can safely say that culturally London is superior to the others.

A pox on all your regional squabbles, Limey bastards

Do some states not look down on other states?

[Political Interest]

Indeed but you are saying it's a north south thing in the OP, there are working class people in the south you know.

So which is it (in you opinion)? North south divide or class culture?

Yes I know there are working class people in the south and I get along with them very well. In my view it is a class cultural divide but there are some elements of the northern versus southern culture.

As for the bold I am allowed to be bigoted towards southern shandy drinking poofy types; I am immersed in the culture in Britain, you are an outside observer, you should at least try and be objective.

I am glad that you like people outside the south east though, I wouldn't live in London if you paid me so we are on the same page there.

I am objective. Also I like the London people in general. It is really stupid to live somewhere and dislike the people there, especially if you are a foreigner. All I am noting are some cultural traits and differences.

The stereotype is that London sorts are less friendly and more cold. I wouldn't agree, I would say they are just as friendly with people they already know but are far more reluctant to take to a stranger or make friends outside of a formal environment.

Yes I think so. They operate based on circles and you must enter the circle to be accepted. Even still most will be civil to you regardless.

[Decky]

I am a Welshman who has lived in Wales, the North East, the South East and London, I can safely say that culturally London is superior to the others.

Culturally superior?

But what about singing? And the valleys? Even I rate the Welsh above Londoners.

[Goldberk]

But what about singing? And the valleys? Even I rate the Welsh above Londoners.

I greatly admire the culture of the valley communities, a culture that came out of adversity and a sense of working class self improvement, a culture that helped create greats such as Bevan. However there is a great concentration of culture in London and a vibrancy that is draining out of the Valleys, I don't regard this as positive but an inescapable reality.

[Rei Murasame]

Mac Dre - Life's a Bitch
[youtube]dF_hLH6f6ck[/youtube]

This is actually a case of values-transference. I can actually parallel every single point Mac Dre makes in that track to the genteel forms of family management and geopolitics in Europe and Asia.

There are scenarios in which this track could've well been performed by Herman Goering and Isoroku Yamamoto, if the language and the metaphors and music style were different.

On a basic level, black music lacks the liberal value system, that's probably why they are able to say those things. Just it is at a different level of society.

[Varax]

Well, the subculture of black youth (as well as the Hispanic youth who imitate and perpetuate it) is indeed extremely degenerate. It has less than nothing to contribute to the type of culture we should be promoting amongst our children and grandchildren.

Correct. The rap subculture is one born out of the lowest lumpen-prole elements of American society. There is some meaningful reflection to be found in the struggles against poverty and destitution, but the majority of it is glorification of violence and degenerate behavior. It oftentimes speaks towards mindless destruction and criminal mentality. This has more in common with the kind of culture found in poor failed states than the ‘martial spirit’ you’re looking for.

Go back to Congo or Somalia, Iraq or Afghanistan, Syria or Libya.

Exactly, you want to start embracing that kind of culture this is the kind of violence and impoverishment you will wind up with. Failed states like Somalia.

The ‘martial spirit’ you’re looking for has as its core order, discipline, respect for national authority and willingness to defend the nation and its people. You’re looking in the wrong places here, out of desperation and disillusionment with the west’s current state I imagine. Rap subculture represents the very worst of what’s wrong with the west - not the solution you seek.

Oh, and I don’t know what you’re talking about musically either. There’s plenty of good European martial music, both classic and modern.

[Far-Right Sage]

Quite, Alpha.

If one is to exalt a thug such as the cult icon Tupac Shakur as the personification of a supposed martial spirit, one might as well elevate Jeffrey Dahmer and be about as productive in doing so. Sometimes everyone needs to be a bit "thuggish", but such should be largely directed to confronting political realities, not raping underaged women and smoking crack.

[DeadPresidents]

Quite, Alpha.

If one is to exalt a thug such as the cult icon Tupac Shakur as the personification of a supposed martial spirit, one might as well elevate Jeffrey Dahmer and be about as productive in doing so. Sometimes everyone needs to be a bit "thuggish", but such should be largely directed to confronting political realities, not raping underaged women and smoking crack.

Tupac wasn't a thug...he was more like a Black Che Guerra that was trying to relate to gang and thug culture of the 90s through storytelling and then it got real with the USA Federal Government was harassing him because he was doing things like the Thug Life movement and organizing gangs into some sort of a political entity. They tried killing him before his assassination and he ended up in jail on a phony rape charge that was orchestrated by an FBI Informant, Haitian Jack.

Tupac Shakur was a nerdy art student that was raised by Black Panthers and was a Black Panther. He was pretty much the closest thing that Black Youths had as a real political leader since Malcolm X. He didn't rap about raping underaged women and smoking crack...he raped about things such as a young Black woman throwing her baby in the garbage in Brenda Has Baby, or police brutality, or the incareation rates in Trapped, or fighting the police in Violent or growing up poor in I Wonder If Heaven Got A Ghetto.


Most of Hip Hop is imitation or telling of street life and it gets kinda twisted among the Capitalism because people who are in the street want things, then you the corporations telling Hip Hop Artists what to say and what their image will be, then you have White people who are the main consumers of Hip Hop music...viewing Hip Hop as a Minstrel Show.

Political Rap Groups like Public Enemy, Dead Prez or rappers like Immortal Technique still exist but you will not see in stuff you hear on the Radio or see on TV because it no longer sells.

I would consider Hip Hop Anarchist and Capitalist in today's form.

Before it was more Political.