[starman2003]

Starman, I take it you assume you would not be one of the proles. Why are you so sure of this?

I never had much mechanical aptitude. I advocate and predict what I consider a better system, regardless of how it would affect anyone personally--which is impossible to predict now.

..what's your obsession with porn?

I'm not "obsessed" with it; it's just typical of a system in which individual gratification takes precedence over the State. Junk food is another example.

Starman's view is basically that everyone except the elite should work like robots. Not quite realistic.

If by "work like robots" you mean work for little personal reward, in a sacrificial system, it has been done before, and is vital for any activist, modern, authoritarian system.

[Figlio di Moros]

I'm not "obsessed" with it; it's just typical of a system in which individual gratification takes precedence over the State. Junk food is another example.

The problem with junk food has nothing to do with 'individualism"; by placing it into the sphere of "gratification", rather than "health", you assert gastronomy and general pleasure as "evil". There's a difference between gratification and hedonism, starman, and we've been over this multiple times before. Banning porn, junk food, bubble gum, etc. does nothing to save resources for the state and robs the individual of all little joys they could take in life; your obsession only serves to hurt moral.

If by "work like robots" you mean work for little personal reward, in a sacrificial system, it has been done before, and is vital for any activist, modern, authoritarian system.

Except that productivity was extremely limited then. Men worked hard, long hours for very little rewards because they had to in order to subsist, and very little excess could be produced. Since the industrial revolution, our productivity has increased hyperbolically; people can't be motivated to produce great excess for substinance. There needs to be some incentive and morale encouraging hard work, which can't be met by long, ardious hours with no joy in life.

[starman2003]

Banning porn, junk food, bubble gum, etc. does nothing to save resources for the state..

Of course it does. The amount spent on all kinds of petty luxuries is astronomical. It was precisely by curtailing availability of such stuff that past authoritarian systems were able to maximize resources for the military and space.

..and robs the individual of all little joys they can take in life..

Anyone for whom porn and junk food etc represents all or even an important joy should be "robbed."

..people can't be motivated to produce great excess for substinance.

Subsistence. German workers did a good job in the thirties despite wages not much above subsistence; same for soviet workers. In any event, the ultimate solution is fast materializing--automation/robotization, even genetic engineering. I think an authoritarian system around 2100 will be the envy of all predecessors, in this respect as in others.

[Francis Drakeleigh]

Mussolini can indeed be credited with the development of the theme if the Proletarian Nation. For Italy and Japan at that time, the definition can be quite easily understood given their relatively disadvantaged economic postion vis-a-vis the dominant imperial plutocracies. What is more challenging is to develop theory for the proletarian nation that exists occluded in present day "post-industrial" Europe. What increases the challenge is to avoid the simplistic arguments that have their origins in the very imperialism that sweated the working class, that of racism. What is needed is for a more holistic view of culture and its ownership by all in the nation, which involves an end to this fatalism that says this globalisation must always be surrendered to.