[layman]

Back to original question, what do you soccer lovers think of my proposals for changes.

Depends whether you want to take part in internationals too.

[Beren]

Soccer won't change enough to be a legitimate sport in the USA, but the USA will.

[Rancid]

Team US is ranked 13th in the world. That's amazing for a country that doesn't care about the sport.

That said, MLS has been growing in popularity. They are looking into expanding to additional teams even. There are a lot of kids that grew up playing the sport in America, this will fuel its growing popularity.

To answer the question, you just need more kids growing up playing the game, which is certainly already happening.

Soccer won't change enough to be a legitimate sport in the USA, but the USA will.

This is true, the game won't change, people's attitude will.

Overall, I do like the idea of harsh punishment for assholes that take dives. Fucking morons. Like that asshole from Costa Rica. It makes a mockery of the game.

[Doomhammer]

I've been observing football (the US version) with my uneducated eyes for a while and I have to say that I don't find it to be particularly interesting. I suppose that's what most Americans would say about soccer.

The game stops literally every 2-3 seconds with teams occasionally gaining territory and moving back and forth until someone finally crosses the furthest line. The whole affair resembles the futility of the phalanx battles of Ancient Greece which often degenerated into pushing matches and a contest of strength. For their troubles, a team is awarded what to me seems to be arbitrarily high points. The sporting culture in soccer-loving European countries is not something to aspire to but in the US context, football fan-culture, more than anything else, simply appears to be an excuse to go out and drink (excessively). I concede that I have not been in a situation in which I had the opporunity to observe live an NFL game, but the "team spirit," which I conceptualize as the spectators actions in influencing the game (through chants and various forms of utterings), is fairly mediocre compared to soccer spectators in Europe, especially in Mediterranean countries.

Tl;dr: I do not like football and I cannot even understand why some people do.

It's impressive that US is doing so well in soccer. Please, please, please continue promoting soccer in your country. Thank you.

[Rancid]

forth until someone finally crosses the furthest line

It's called the end-zone buddy. American football is badass, and so is Soccer (or real football). They should rename American football to handegg though.

[layman]

Wont all the new mexicans immigrants make a big difference?

I assume they are still crazy about football.

[The Immortal Goon]

Ugh...

Again, you can't force people by threat of death to call their sport "football," and then decide a century or two later that the game you made up called, "Association rules football," or "soccer," is actually called, "football," and is the only legitimate sport to be called football...despite the majority of English speakers disagreeing you.

[Doomhammer]

Ugh...

Again, you can't force people by threat of death to call their sport "football," and then decide a century or two later that the game you made up called, "Association rules football," or "soccer," is actually called, "football," and is the only legitimate sport to be called football...despite the majority of English speakers disagreeing you.

Yeah. I'm going to call "football", "American football." I will not call soccer football simply because it's common place to call it "football" everywhere else and in other languages. I will however inculcate in my friends your argument about the origins of the term.

[Beren]

Ugh...

Again, you can't force people by threat of death to call their sport "football," and then decide a century or two later that the game you made up called, "Association rules football," or "soccer," is actually called, "football," and is the only legitimate sport to be called football...despite the majority of English speakers disagreeing you.

God save us from the Irish ever calling soccer football.

[Rancid]

Doomhammer, you simply don't understand American Football. It's a thinking man's game, unlike soccer which you take for face value. The draw to American football is the heavy amounts of strategy and real-time decision making that has to happen, but also the fact that it has to be coupled with athleticism. It's a game of chess, and if you don't pay attention to the details, you will not understand it.

For the record, I like watching both sports.

[Rugoz]

Team US is ranked 13th in the world. That's amazing for a country that doesn't care about the sport.

Lol, I hope you realize the FIFA world ranking is absolutely worthless.

More and more latinos coming to the US will certainly change things in the long term though.

Soccer is half way between Ice skating, and ballet in terms of being a sport.

What dancers achieve with their bodies impresses me a lot more than what athletes do in other "sports".

Well Federer is kind of impressive too, at least he was in his prime.

[Rancid]

Lol, I hope you realize the FIFA world ranking is absolutely worthless.

SHUTUP!! SHUTUP YOUR FACE!!! Regardless, the US still has a good team. We are the best in CONCACAF.

[Dagoth Ur]

The American sport has been basketball for the past decade and I really think that's only going to increase. Although basketball has the same "falls" problem that soccer has.

Also fuck British Imperialism and all its sports. Cricket to Soccer. Baseball sucks too.

[Rancid]

American Football is far more popular than Basketball in America. However, basketball is the number 2 sport in the US.

[Demosthenes]

I thought it was number three actually...*googles*

Hmmm... it depends on whether you mean spectator or participatory sport. The numbers from wiki indicate some 23 million played basketball last year compared to like... 8.9 million for Football.

Those numbers don't seem very accurate to me, but I guess... whatever.

Still, in terms of spectator sports Football is number one, and I'd be surprised if baseball wasn't number two with something like basketball, NASCAR, college football and basketball, and then NHL coming in next in some kind of order.

[Rancid]

I'm talking spectator-ship.

[Quantum]

Wont all the new mexicans immigrants make a big difference?

I assume they are still crazy about football.

The Americans are better than the Mexicans, funnily enough and they saved the Mexicans from being knocked out of the World Cup by beating Panama.

They have a knack for keeping Mexicans in.

[Doomhammer]

http://www.politicsforum.org/

Doomhammer, you simply don't understand American Football. It's a thinking man's game, unlike soccer which you take for face value.

I'm being bigotted. I admit that.

The draw to American football is the heavy amounts of strategy and real-time decision making that has to happen,

You need strategy in every human endeavor. Please do not try to trivialize soccer because it lacks "strategy" - strategy is the employment of means to fulfill ends. Every sport too must therefore have a logic of strategy. I will concede that infiltrating the opponent's territory requires the execution of sophisticated pre-planned operations to deceive the opponent, while the arranging of different offense-defense teams shows how crucial it is to pick the right combination of players.

I will now attempt to disabuse you of your misconceptions. That soccer appears to rely more on skill is simply because it forbids the use of the upper limbs -which people are more able to control. You need to be more skilled to do certain things consistently in soccer. True. But a manager at a minimum has to consider the following:

1. Choosing the right "strategy".
2. Choosing the right players
3. Which of the two matters more?
4. How to lay out the 10 players on the field to achieve our goals? What is the ideal distribution of players (and what players do we have to begin with?) to the three different areas of the field.
5. Should we prefer offensive play or defensive.
6. If offensive, do we favor advancing from the center of the field, or from the wings? Do we prefer direct passes, long passes behind the opponent, or do we primarily seek to create dead ball opportunities? Do we favor on side of the field to another to exploit or strengths or to exploit the opponent's weakness?
7. If we plan on playing defensively, will we seek to dominate the game through safe passes or let the opponent play and attempt to score with counterattacks?
8. How do we execute and defend against deadball situations? (Some freekick and corner routines are mindbogglingly complex).
9. How do we obtain the ball? What is the maximum extent to which we make physical contact with the opponent?

The manager can intervene in the game at any time to change all but players (which is limited to 3 players only).

Then comes the usual externalities that you find in every sport: 1) weather, 2) referees, 3) the form and drilling of the team 4) human error i.e. plain luck.

but also the fact that it has to be coupled with athleticism.

The average soccer player in a top European league runs about 10-11 km a match. Football players have to put up with more physical hardship in terms of being subjected to physical contact. But the game stops every 10 seconds while a whole different set of players temporarily replace you depending on whether or not you're attacking. Doesn't seem to be especially taxing as far as stamina is concerned - compared to, say, basketball or soccer.

It's a game of chess, and if you don't pay attention to the details, you will not understand it.

I play chess. I don't get football. Enlighten me.

For the record, I like watching both sports.

Know what's fun to watch? Snooker. Better than either for watching.


By the way, basketall will continue to thrive as long as other countries countinue to be enthralled with the NBA.

[Rancid]

You don't get it Doomhammer, you just don't get it. Shame on you.

Overall, I really don't care to enlighten you or convince you. I don't feel like typing about the nuances of the game you won't care about anyway.

[Quantum]

Doomhammer is right. Strategy is important in the beautiful game. Just look at Chelsea and how they turned great players to shit because of poor decision making caused by Abramovich.