[hunter10]

The conclusions that are drawn from black athletes dominating the 100m final go a long way to explaining attitudes in wider society, argues Matthew Syed.

The 100m final at the World Athletics Championships this weekend will be won by a black athlete.

Every winner of the 100m since the inaugural event in 1983 has been black, as has every finalist from the last 10 championships with the solitary exception of Matic Osovnikar of Slovakia, who finished seventh in 2007.

Assuming that this success is driven by genes rather than environment, there is a rather obvious inference to make - black people are naturally better sprinters than white people. Indeed, it is an inference that seems obligatory, barring considerations of political correctness. Also does this assumption have wider reaching impact outside the sports world, as this BBC article will show.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14679657

However there is another article that speaks of this calls it the African running phenomenon discounts the basis of genetic advantage as being the reason why blacks dominate these events. What are your thoughts.

http://www.endlesshumanpotential.com/af ... menon.html

[SecretSquirrel]

Physical aptitude is heavily (but not entirely) affected by genetics. It could be that africans are better sprinters. Or it could be a cultural thing, or maybe africans are expected to compete in track events, so they encourage their young athletes to do so, while whites compete in others instead.

In the end, who gives a fuck

[Zagadka]

I'll skip ahead and get to the comparisons with intelligence.

Whites can keep running. They might win, nothing is guaranteed.

[Notorious B.i.G.]

Be interesting to put the comparison to swimming.

I don't recall many black swimmers let alone championship winning swimmers.

[Corporatios]

That may be a point. Europeans had much closer ties with the sea, than Africans. It may have played a role on the evolution.

Is it wrong to note 100m winners are always black

I find this a bit inflamatory. I read 'Can I say whites sucks? That the blacks own them? Yes I can bitches, because PC is one sided and I love it!!'

[killim]

For so many decades all 100 meter winners were doped...

[Chill]

Is it wrong to note 100m winners are always black

No it's not wrong.
But it is when you cross the line to talk about something else.

[Repeat to Fade]

It's rather wrong to cast out the environment when thinking about this. What is actually true is that this is not limited to the 100m sprint, in fact it's not limited to running. It is however seemingly determined by expense. Blacks do well in cheaper sports. Sports that don't require expensive equipment to train or special facilities to train in. So that might go some way to explain the difference, their choice of sports is limited.

Also it may be cultural. Black people tend to less interested in some sports. Go to for instance an NFL game and there are plenty of black people in the stands. Not so many for NHL games though.

So you've got kids who can't do sports they might be interested in due to expense, and some kids who might be good at sports they don't want to do.

[artka]

well let's see the 2012 London olympics and Christophe Lemaitre in the finals of 100m

[Dave]

It's rather wrong to cast out the environment when thinking about this. What is actually true is that this is not limited to the 100m sprint, in fact it's not limited to running. It is however seemingly determined by expense. Blacks do well in cheaper sports. Sports that don't require expensive equipment to train or special facilities to train in. So that might go some way to explain the difference, their choice of sports is limited.

Also it may be cultural. Black people tend to less interested in some sports. Go to for instance an NFL game and there are plenty of black people in the stands. Not so many for NHL games though.

So you've got kids who can't do sports they might be interested in due to expense, and some kids who might be good at sports they don't want to do.

The joke in America is that blacks are so good at sprinting because they spend so much time running from the cops.

But yes, the fact that anyone can run greatly democratizes the sport. Every boy runs though, and it's very exclusively blacks, particularly blacks of West African descent, who dominate.

Genetic reasons which likely contribute are their smaller torsos, elongated legs, lighter calfs, lower body fat, and greater receptivity to androgens.

There is now a great white hope in the 100m, however! The Frenchman Christophe Lemaitre is the first white man to ever run the 100m in under ten seconds, and he is the first white man to win the 100m finals in the "European" Championship (obviously a real European Championship would exclude non-whites). He won the 200m finals too. It will be interesting to see how he performs in the 2012 Olympiad.

[Repeat to Fade]

But yes, the fact that anyone can run greatly democratizes the sport. Every boy runs though, and it's very exclusively blacks, particularly blacks of West African descent, who dominate.

Because while every boy runs they don't stop there, they even use that in another sport or they get offered once that don't involve running at all, like rowing. Now are we to claim that because pretty much only whites row it is a whites person sport due to genetics

Or to put it on the flip-side to your argument. In the western world nearly every boy cycles, even the black kids. But name a good black track or road cyclists. Is this down to genetics too?

In fact most kids in the west swim too, yet still no blacks. If it's not about the money do try and explain it.

[Dave]

Because while every boy runs they don't stop there, they even use that in another sport or they get offered once that don't involve running at all, like rowing. Now are we to claim that because pretty much only whites row it is a whites person sport due to genetics

Rowing requires upper body strength which is sustained for some time. Blacks have somewhat smaller torsos and more fast twitch muscle fibers, so there is a plausible genetic reason for their lack of representation. This is one of the reasons why whites, particularly northern Europeans, dominate strongman competitions. Obviously money and class play a role as well, there would be no reason to deny that. Rowing in America is considered an old money WASP sport and is the domain of prep schools and Ivy League universities.

I wonder if this plays a role in the Eastern European takeover of heavyweight boxing, by the way.

Or to put it on the flip-side to your argument. In the western world nearly every boy cycles, even the black kids. But name a good black track or road cyclists. Is this down to genetics too?

Cycling requires endurance, so yes. However, cycling also requires money which excludes blacks. Blacks of East African descent, famed for their endurance, perhaps would make good cyclists.

Another thing that would factor into this is that cycling equipment all looks gay so blacks would probably shun it.

In fact most kids in the west swim too, yet still no blacks. If it's not about the money do try and explain it.

Smaller torsos and blacks sink easier. Obviously money also plays a role which is why many blacks can't even swim. There was a joke going around during Hurricane Katrina that we didn't do more to save the locals in New Orleans so they'd learn how to swim.

[Repeat to Fade]

I wonder if this plays a role in the Eastern European takeover of heavyweight boxing, by the way.

We will come to an alternative explanation for this later, if it is true.

Cycling requires endurance, so yes.

But blacks are good at running, they make very good marathon runners.

In fact there's a thing, now the male event is dominated by Kenyans and the like. But the female event isn't. For instance if you look at the last 10 London marathons the only non-African male to win was Khalid Khannouchi an american, and he was ethnically Moroccan. But there have only been two female african winners in the last 10 years. In fact since 1981 there have only been 6 female african winners.

Okay back to the boxers, or in fact not at all about the boxers. It reminded me of how well the USSR used to do in the olympics and then that fell away. It also reminded me of the british cycling. British cycling was never much, not until recently now it has seriously turned a corner, both on the track on the road. Now this is not because about 25 years ago there was something in the water that produced genetically better cyclists. A few years ago the sporting bodies funded it a great deal more and the results followed.

Get enough kids and enough funding and you will make a decent enough team.

[Dave]

But blacks are good at running, they make very good marathon runners.

In fact there's a thing, now the male event is dominated by Kenyans and the like. But the female event isn't. For instance if you look at the last 10 London marathons the only non-African male to win was Khalid Khannouchi an american, and he was ethnically Moroccan. But there have only been two female african winners in the last 10 years. In fact since 1981 there have only been 6 female african winners.

Blacks of East African descent are not the same as blacks of West African descent. Those of East African descent have a predominance of slow-twitch muscle fibers and excellent endurance...which is precisely why I said that East Africans might make for good cyclists.

Okay back to the boxers, or in fact not at all about the boxers. It reminded me of how well the USSR used to do in the olympics and then that fell away. It also reminded me of the british cycling. British cycling was never much, not until recently now it has seriously turned a corner, both on the track on the road. Now this is not because about 25 years ago there was something in the water that produced genetically better cyclists. A few years ago the sporting bodies funded it a great deal more and the results followed.

Russia still does quite well at the Olympics actually, but obviously they did better when they had double the population and much more funding. I assume more rigorous testing for PEDs hasn't helped their cause. Still, after Valeri Borzov they never did well in sprinting again.

Get enough kids and enough funding and you will make a decent enough team.

Sure, just look at China. Asians are small and weak, but there are so many Chinese and the PRC puts children showing talent in athletic schools/camps with plenty of funding so they do very well anyway.

[Repeat to Fade]

Blacks of East African descent are not the same as blacks of West African descent. Those of East African descent have a predominance of slow-twitch muscle fibers and excellent endurance...which is precisely why I said that East Africans might make for good cyclists.

But they don't, and as noted their women aren't exactly dominating marathons either.

[Dave]

But they don't, and as noted their women aren't exactly dominating marathons either.

To hazard a guess, women from this group don't pursue notions of equality and don't practice sports much.

The women do still have a predominance of slow-twitch muscle fibers, so cultural explanations make a lot of sense.

[Alchemy]

Blacks of East African descent are not the same as blacks of West African descent. Those of East African descent have a predominance of slow-twitch muscle fibers and excellent endurance...which is precisely why I said that East Africans might make for good cyclists.

I think that Altitude has more to do with this than muscle fibers. Even if muscle fibers is a reason, this would most likely be the result of adaption to the high altitudes in these countries, a product of altitude as opposed to genetic muscle fibers. Running and training at higher elevations builds greater lung capacity, hence their evolutionary successes in long distance running. There is a reason why most long distance and endurance athletes train at altitude.

[Rancid]

Be interesting to put the comparison to swimming.

I don't recall many black swimmers let alone championship winning swimmers.

Inner city kids are far less likely to know how to swim. Perhaps that explains it.

[unbalanced zealot]

I wonder if this plays a role in the Eastern European takeover of heavyweight boxing, by the way.

I'm not sure that race is a factor on this front.

The last really meaningful HW fight between two All Time Greats was probably Vitali v Lennox Lewis. Both about the same size ... both dominant champions in their times. Lewis got a TKO on cuts after being down on the cards - but basically an even fight.

[Rilzik]

This has been out for a while now.


Centre of gravity theory for dominance of black sprinters and white swimmers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... mmers.html