[Demosthenes]

Don't be so sure about that Godstud. With the current impass, losing one season will hurt, losing more than that...

That WILL kill the game. I don't see that dumbass Bettman is going to budge, and unless the new session between owners and players pans out, we're about to lose this season entirely.



Thing is, last time, it was clear the players needed to budge, and they did and they budged alot. Then they went to work with the system that was in place and turned it into a winner. Then the owners come back this time and want to make them budge again? Actually, they're not asking them to budge, they're trying to push them to the ground and place a foot firmly at their throats.

Remember no one in any other sport has ever taken a "salary reduction" across the board for the value of contracts already signed except NHL players, and now these jackasses want them to do it again, AND limit contract lengths, AND raise free agency age, AND change arbitration to something highly favoring the owners, AND the list goes on...

Really?

I'll happily enjoy the KHL with many of my favorite players, if the only other option is waiting on NHL owners to get fucking real. With the threat of a second season lost, I'm sure a tv deal will spring up somewhere. Hell, I bet I could stream them from somewhere already... I hear Ovie's a big deal over there at the moment.

[Godstud]

I hope it's not the case. I don't really get to see the NHL here, but I'd really hate to think it's gone.

[Demosthenes]

FINALLY! Deal is done. 48-50 Game season starts as early as Jan 15th.

Well, lets be specific, a "tentative" deal has been reached.

I may still root for Yaroslavl anyway.

[Plaro]

I personally have lost touch with sports about a decade ago. Just something about sports being commercialized just does not sit right with me. Watch a team from Toronto for example play hockey, yet no one on the team is from Toronto actually. It is just strange.

And just to watch someone play for money, rather then just enjoyment is strange too.

[Buzz62]

I will NOT watch...nor will I attend any games.
I'm disgusted with all of 'em.
And IMO...Bettman should be fired and sent packing!

Good Bye NHL...it was nice...but your greed and childishness has ruined your brand.

[The Clockwork Rat]

That's okay. I'm looking forward to it starting up again so I can get into it.

[Social_Critic]

The NHL is a sub par product. Many of you are too young to realize they no longer play the real sport, it's a bastard designed for TV audiences, made violent and lawless on purpose to bring in more beer swilling youth. It's Rollerball, The Hunger Games, The Running Man. Boy do I miss the old game.

[Buzz62]

Ya in a way yer right.
The game was always violent... a real testosterone rush.
But the changes have brought in allot of cheap shit.

[Magnetonium]

We'll wait and see just how much damage this strike has done to the game and the fans. I know many people who have been alienated by the lost games. This is the third consecutive bargaining agreement that resulted in lost games. Fans need to be cautious, excited that the hockey is back, but at the same time the players and especially the owners need to be punished by the fans with less revenues and fewer fans. Just this season. So that this way the strike will not happen again. Last time a whole season was lost and yet the fans forgave them like it never happened. That was a mistake. Too much greed and ignorance is ruining this great game, this needs to be rectified quick.

[Figlio di Moros]

I'm excited the season's back on, and the KHL can suck my balls. We've got the AHL, the farm teams- why would you switch sides to watch some foreigners play non-physical? You might as well turn on Field Hockey if you want to see a girls' sport.

[Demosthenes]

Ya in a way yer right.
The game was always violent... a real testosterone rush.
But the changes have brought in allot of cheap shit.

No, he's not right at all, and isn't a real fan anyway. Unless I suppose we'll hear about how he was in Lake Placid, circa 1980...

The NHL is a sub par product.

The management of the NHL is completely subpar. The rest is good. Maybe you can tell us how anti-Castro forces would have done better running the league?

it's a bastard designed for TV audiences,

No, it isn't at all. Even though Figlio is wrong, he's correct about the nature of the International game. It's finesse and showmanship. THAT's what tv audiences want to see (Look at the passing rules in the most popular North American sport...) The North American game has actually gotten LESS physical, not more over the last couple decades. Oh, and you can thank none other than the Philadelphia Flyers for the variance in the North American style of play. Its how they beat the Reds (who, at one point, refused to take the ice, but I'm sure you know that since you were there) and were the ONLY team to do so beyond the Miracle on Ice team (Speaking of US teams, of course). This includes NHL all star teams too.

So to clarify your wrongness, the league WAS the way you say in the 1970s and up through the early 80s until Wayne Gretzky and the Oilers completely lit things up to the point that new defensive rules had to be created to stop the out-of-hand scoring. Gretzky holds the record for most goals in a season with 92, which won't be repeated in our lifetimes. Teemu Selanne came closest in the '90s with a 70 goal season.

Anyway, this resulted in the ultimate clutching and grabbing league by the 90s and early 2000s, which in turn was pushed back after the '05 lockout. So, it isn't anything like what you describe and REAL fan who actually watches the game would know that.

But the changes have brought in allot of cheap shit

Yeah, I have to admit, you're right about this. I don't care for that either, and my Flyers are pretty guilty of this kind of thing too.

this way the strike will not happen again.

I like the rest of your post, but it's important to clarify that this wasn't a strike and neither were the other two since the '90s. They have all been lockouts. Its vitally important to recognize that fact. Each time, the players have been willing to play, but the owners have been such poor negotiators (via their lapdog) that the only negotiating tactic they could use was to lock out the players.

Three times! Now THAT is piss poor management.

We've got the AHL, the farm teams- why would you switch sides to watch some foreigners play non-physical?

There are more foreigners in the NHL game than Americans already. And the number is overwhelming if you count Canadians. I would watch the KHL over the AHL because its simply a better league. I don't mind the international game at all and in fact, favor the larger ice surfaces.

I have no pointlessly silly hangups over Russians or other foreigners, I just like the sport quite a bit and want to watch the best product available. THAT said, if our tv offered either AHL, ECHL, junior league, or even college games regularly via satellite I would subscribe to them all.

You might as well turn on Field Hockey if you want to see a girls' sport.

Come on now, its not as if you could play against them... c'mon.... The international game is hardly girly...

[Brio]

Oh, and you can thank none other than the Philadelphia Flyers for the variance in the North American style of play. Its how they beat the Reds (who, at one point, refused to take the ice, but I'm sure you know that since you were there) and were the ONLY team to do so beyond the Miracle on Ice team (Speaking of US teams, of course).

You are trying to make this an American accomplishment, but a 100% of the players on the Flyers team that beat the Soviet Red Army team in 1976 were Canadian. Or did Bobby Clarke, Pernie Parent, et all, get a hold of a time machine and apply for US citizenship prior to 1976? Additionally, there were a number of NHL teams that beat Soviet teams in the many Super Series that were held, so your claim isn't even correct.

So to clarify your wrongness, the league WAS the way you say in the 1970s and up through the early 80s until Wayne Gretzky and the Oilers completely lit things up to the point that new defensive rules had to be created to stop the out-of-hand scoring.

No, the strategy of using goons/thugs to intimidate oneself to victory began to change when the finesse teams of the Montreal Canadiens won four straight Stanley Cups between 1976-1979.

[Demosthenes]

You are trying to make this an American accomplishment

Actually I'm not at all. I was trying to show Mr Everywhere that his non-fan's take on what he thinks the sport is isn't accurate at all. Furthermore, my intent in relation to the explanation on the style of the league was only meant as a back story tidbit. Obviously, while most cities fielding NHL teams are American, most players are Canadian.

I assumed that went without saying.

Or did Bobby Clarke, Pernie Parent, et all, get a hold of a time machine and apply for US citizenship prior to 1976?

I kinda thought they might have actually.

Additionally, there were a number of NHL teams that beat Soviet teams in the many Super Series that were held, so your claim isn't even correct.

My understanding was that there were two between the 60s and the 80s. If that's not accurate, I must have misunderstood the context of what I saw.

No, the strategy of using goons/thugs to intimidate oneself to victory began to change when the finesse teams of the Montreal Canadiens won four straight Stanley Cups between 1976-1979.

Well there you go! Still, my point remains that the thuggery Social_Critic has accused the league of... placing before all else, really isn't right. At all.

[Brio]

Actually I'm not at all.

Ah I see. The part about "and were the ONLY team to do so beyond the Miracle on Ice team (Speaking of US teams, of course)" made me think that you were linking the US Olympic team with the Flyers; the implication being that like the Lake Placid team, the Flyers were some great champion for American hockey. My apologies on the misunderstanding.

I kinda thought they might have actually.

Nah, Bobby Clarke was too busy doing gap-toothed glamour shots for the media to be arsed with time travel.

My understanding was that there were two between the 60s and the 80s.

Not trying be condescending, but you got this very wrong. The Super Series was a series of exhibition games between 1976 and 1991 matching Soviet and NHL teams against one another. As you can see from the link, in the same Super Series that the Flyers won, the Buffalo Sabres also beat the Soviet team (although one was versus the Red Army team, the other against the Soviet Wings).

Still, my point remains that the thuggery Social_Critic has accused the league of... placing before all else, really isn't right. At all.

I agree. The NHL has actually cut down on non-spontaneous fighting and fighting in general, so much so that the goons of yesteryear who could barely skate/stickhandle are gone from the game. This is mostly due to the introduction of the instigator rule which lessened the need for a goon ala Dave "Cement Head" Semenko (who protected Gretzky in his heyday) to protect the teams stars from other goons. With every roster space being important and there not being as great of need for "star protection" the goons had to adapt and learn to play at a serviceable level or be dumped from the team (see Chris Simon, Tie Domi, George Laraques for examples of fighters who could also contribute to the play). It has gotten to a point where some people have said fighting might work itself out of the game on it's own in the next decade or two, much to the chagrin of people like Don Cherry.