[antipro]

I like the idea of Technocracy, but it just won't work because humans aren't like you suppose humans would be.

For example, Technocrats argue that people will get bored if they are not occupied with something, and therefore, along with the social effects like climbing up the social ladder by doing work for the community, they will work anyway.

I just don't think it is possible to make people work as many hours as neccessary.
Especially when it comes to the health care. Caring for other people is a HUGE burden, and many people who work already like to care for other people. But in Denmark where we have something called "efterløn" (it is a system with early retirement which you can choose when you reach the age of 60, compared to the actual retirement pension at the age of 67), the vast majority of the workers in the health care system, would choose to retire early. This is due to the huge burden of caring for elderly, or the mentally ill. Some psychiatric patients are so ill that they are using up a lot of resources.

This burden will eventually lead to a desire from the community to call for compulsary euthanasia of the mentally ill, and I just don't like that thought.

In the good old days, the children were more than happy if they could get gift of a pair of new socks for christmas. Today you need to give them a notebook to make them "somewhat happy". We regard new socks, water, housing and bread as everyday things. In a technocracy, you argue that these basic needs will automatically be fulfilled. But I say that even if it is true, that scarcity can be wished away, this will lead to lazy people. I am pretty sure the vast majority would like to quit the dream of a space travel or other things which may be scarce.

I believe in the system where you have a dream, and if you want to follow it, you work for it, and it will eventually come true. I like this kind of reward. But I just can't, and neither should you - deny the fact that sometimes, people need to be FORCED to do some work! The money system is the most flexible type of compulsory labor, as you can use your money whereever you wish (assuming we are using same currency).
That is the main reason the monetary system was invented. It wasn't invented, expanded and developed so efficiently if it could be replaced by something better. Money causes problems, yes, it creates scarcity, yes, but we NEED this artificial scarcity of a new pair of socks.

[maryanxx]

Then just kill the lazy ones.

[antipro]

Then just kill the lazy ones.

So you are advocating a system where direct force is used instead of indirect force, like economy, is used?
That is in use already, just look at North Korea. I don't think they do it that good, compared to south korea.

[Zyx]

antipro, today's system already does maryanxx foolish suggestion.

Unlike your imagination, most workers do not work for new socks but food and shelter.

Your system is pro-capitalism with an ignorance of imperialism. It's not actually worth addressing.

However, for your delight, I'd challenge you to read on those who mine the materials that allow for so much of our technology. Look particularly in the Congo as it is there one can get "Coltan" and it is there where one can clearly see what your system advocates, though the sweatshops and such are clear examples as well.

Maybe when you realize that 8 USD an hour is a teenage wage in the U.S. yet 8 USD a day is a wealthy adults wage in many parts of India, you'll see yourself as deludedly as you've presented yourself to the forum.

The expenses and rent, I should add, are slightly cheaper and better prices can be found in the U.S. for the same necessities. Further, your Denmark is only slightly different in terms of 'privilege.'

[Bosnjak]

Technocracy like any other system on the Paper is only Utopia, it is a nice and current Ideal which technocracy promotes.

In reality could be the work time reduced to 20 hours per weak, and high wages high taxation of the rich, where nearly the hole population has University degrees.

Humans would mostly work in the research sector, the rest is done by machines.




For example is Mazdar City a stolen Idea of Technocracy, Renewable Energy and Car Sharing, are Technocratic Ideas, but selled and packed in capitalist form.

The other option is the by Mazhi promoted Market Socialism, Autogestion, where Workers own the company.

[MB.]

Technocrats argue that people will get bored if they are not occupied with something,

Technocrats do not argue this.

Especially when it comes to the health care

This is a fairly common critique of technocracy, and I cannot really fathom why. In the medieval period hospitals were places where battle-monks worked for free and at great risk to their personal health to care for the sick and wounded. The problem you are having is that you cannot imagine any system that is at all different from modern post-industrial capitalism.

I am pretty sure the vast majority would like to quit the dream of a space travel or other things which may be scarce.

I don't follow you here.

and if you want to follow it, you work for it, and it will eventually come true

Then you would love technocracy.

people need to be FORCED to do some work!

You are endorsing fascism.

[Antipro's] system is pro-capitalism with an ignorance of imperialism. It's not actually worth addressing.

I agree.

In reality could be the work time reduced to 20 hours per weak, and high wages high taxation of the rich, where nearly the hole population has University degrees.

This would not be technocracy. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

[Bosnjak]

This would not be technocracy. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.

No but this ist the best you can get, to change the capitalist system and installing the Resource-Credits system you would need more then 75% of votes.

[MB.]

What?

[Bosnjak]

To install real Technocracy you would need 75% of Votes to change the constitution. The Right of Property.

[MB.]

To 'install technocracy' (technocracy is not a computer program) one would need much more than '75%' of the 'Votes' and a 'change' to the constitution and the 'Right of Property'.

For example, creation of the North American techncate would require first the abolition of several rather prominent and developed nation-states.

[Bosnjak]

For example, creation of the North American techncate would require first the abolition of several rather prominent and developed nation-states.

This is going to happen in the near Future, the North American Union (Mexico USA Canada), the currency would be the "Amero".

[MB.]

The North American Union in no way resembles the North American Technate, and it would not include the important areas of the Caribbean and Latin America.

Also, the future of the North American Union is not something one can suggest will occure- there is no evidence to suggest that a union is inevitable or even desirable in current economic climate.