DumbTeen wrote:I'm saying the well-being of workers is often totally unrelated to the banal question of total nationalization and collectivization.
Considering that real wages has fallen to their
lowest level in recorded history, and an increase in productivity, it doesn't help your argument that some how, the friendly capitalist society has some "care" for workers. When you factor in inflation, we start to see this decline in real wages.
For example, if the nominal wage of a worker rises by 2% and there is 3% inflation, what we actually have here, is that the workers real wage has dropped by 1%. What does all this add up to? This means that the value of goods and services the worker could afford went
down by 1%. (In fact, taking an example from modern day, the real wage did in fact decrease in
2005. The median weekly earnings actually
increased from 638 - 651 and increase of about 3.16%, however, during the same year, with inflation,
which was 3.4%, the $651 in 2005 actually ended up being worth less, $631. All this time, while corporate profit has been at its highest.
So, it's nice to talk about how "wonderful" material improvement has come to our lives, but the reality is that when we end up destroying 2.5 Million manufacturing jobs here, and replace them with McJobs, which don't pay much in the first place to sustain one person. It's amazing what jobs people will take, in order to just survive. If you call that "improvement" then fine, whatever floats your boat.
Keynes wrote:Why would we want to destroy capital and property?
Capital, is what aids the process of inequality in a society, in terms of opportunities and lifestyle. Property is a tool used to protect the interest of the Bourgeois class and Capital. People did at one time exist without having "personal property", it was not until capitalism, which we started to see private property for the commons.
How are you planning to produce things without capital?
By replacing it with a labour token system, which one cannot gain surplus or horde capital.
And Market socialism offers a system that might actually work as opposed to planned economies.
They were dismal failures and often state capitalist nightmares.
Someone hasn't read
Towards a new SocialismTheodore wrote:You do realise I live in former Yugoslavia?
Then why does your location say "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" ?
It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness. - Karl Marx