- 07 Oct 2006 07:14
#994267
I thought this was the socialist forum?
Why are you talking about some communistic utopia?
I reject the LVT,to me it is flawed,I follow the view that labour is what creates value,but although all value is measured in labour all labour is not homogenous and cannot simply be measured in time.
Here's an article on the dialectic evolution of exploitation theories,it shows while the LVT is dialectically superior to all capitalist theories,it is inferior to later socialist ones.
http://orion.it.luc.edu/~dschwei/demdialectic.htm
The only way to decide on value is democratically through co-ops where the profits are shared.
One would not gain much at all.
And you accused me of utopian thinking.
Some one hasn't read a history book.
Socialism means the workers own the means of production,they did not in the Soviet union therefore it was not socialist,State capitalism is my favourite name for it,mainly because it annoys capitalists,it was a peculiar hybrid of capitalism with elements of force.
We know co-ops work,from all the empirical data I've seen they are as efficient or even more so than capitalist companies,all we need is the socialist investment system and we have a worthy model that would probably work.
Capital, is what aids the process of inequality in a society, in terms of opportunities and lifestyle. Property is a tool used to protect the interest of the Bourgeois class and Capital. People did at one time exist without having "personal property", it was not until capitalism, which we started to see private property for the commons.
I thought this was the socialist forum?
Why are you talking about some communistic utopia?
I reject the LVT,to me it is flawed,I follow the view that labour is what creates value,but although all value is measured in labour all labour is not homogenous and cannot simply be measured in time.
Here's an article on the dialectic evolution of exploitation theories,it shows while the LVT is dialectically superior to all capitalist theories,it is inferior to later socialist ones.
http://orion.it.luc.edu/~dschwei/demdialectic.htm
The only way to decide on value is democratically through co-ops where the profits are shared.
By replacing it with a labour token system, which one cannot gain surplus or horde capital.
One would not gain much at all.
And you accused me of utopian thinking.
Someone hasn't read Towards a new Socialism
Some one hasn't read a history book.
Socialism means the workers own the means of production,they did not in the Soviet union therefore it was not socialist,State capitalism is my favourite name for it,mainly because it annoys capitalists,it was a peculiar hybrid of capitalism with elements of force.
We know co-ops work,from all the empirical data I've seen they are as efficient or even more so than capitalist companies,all we need is the socialist investment system and we have a worthy model that would probably work.