[extazie]

Let me ask the mainland Chinese, Chinese Americans, or other foreign Chinese, wherever you are.... imagine the following scenario:

A war breaks out between China and Taiwan, the war ends in 2 weeks, China wins, Taiwan surrenders. But it doesn't end here... because China uses unconventional weapons, the US and its NATO allies deploy a decade-long trade embargo with China. Food and oil imports to China diminish and China's production halts. Due to political and social instability that follow the war, there are mess chaos, unemployment, inflation, poverty, riots in Tibet and Xingjiang.... all these trigger mass migration to the US, which, say, generously takes in 3 million Chinese immigrants as refugees. 50 plus years later, CNN interviews the grandchildren of these refugees and ask them: "do you consider yourself to be Chinese or American?"

what do you think they will answer?


Proctor's edit: Do not include ALL CAPS in thread titles.
_________________________________________
Now put yourselves in the shoes of the 3rd generation Chinese, born and raised in Taiwan. Are they Chinese or Taiwanese?

[fastspawn]

China would have kept in mind the embargo before the invasion. Sometimes material benefits would outweigh whatevere principles they have, and US will not stand to lose trillions of dollars over something that is over.

[glinert]

Chinese government very smart sneaky group. They plan ahead,

Not a good idea

[vlad5017]

think they'll answer american. because if your family migrated into another country for a few generations, 'n then their kids actually grow up in that place..... wouldn't it be right to say they're american but only genetically chinese?

Though i doubt china will actually go to war with taiwan. it's just impossible unless somehow america allied with china rather than staying neutural like now. personally, the dispute between china and taiwan are kind of stupid. it's like two kids fighting each other and then at the end the parent (america) comes and settle the business.

[Timkunming]

They will answer Chinese. Whether you are born America, Europe, South America, etc. you will still always be Chinese. Many ABCs and BBCs I meet in China, say they are Chinese, but born in a different country. This is because we all unite under one culture and the Chinese "mind". Glinert is right. The Chinese Government is smart and sneaky, and has learned from mistakes in the past. Don't think for a second that China would initiate a war with Taiwan unless they knew exactly what they were going to do afterwards, in multiple scenarios. They plan things well.

[glinert]

ruguo ni zai zhongguo chusheng zongshi ni shi zhongwen.

[Timkunming]

Glinert,
我的朋友! 你说得对. 我很高兴认识你.

[gravedigger]

Let me ask the mainland Chinese, Chinese Americans, or other foreign Chinese, wherever you are.... imagine the following scenario:

A war breaks out between China and Taiwan, the war ends in 2 weeks, China wins, Taiwan surrenders. But it doesn't end here... because China uses unconventional weapons, the US and its NATO allies deploy a decade-long trade embargo with China. Food and oil imports to China diminish and China's production halts. Due to political and social instability that follow the war, there are mess chaos, unemployment, inflation, poverty, riots in Tibet and Xingjiang.... all these trigger mass migration to the US, which, say, generously takes in 3 million Chinese immigrants as refugees. 50 plus years later, CNN interviews the grandchildren of these refugees and ask them: "do you consider yourself to be Chinese or American?"

what do you think they will answer?
_________________________________________
Now put yourselves in the shoes of the 3rd generation Chinese, born and raised in Taiwan. Are they Chinese or Taiwanese?

you never think taiwan problem carefuelly
both china bureaucracy and usa doesn't want war. nowadays china and usa have a lot of commen interests. In many area, usa need china, like anti-terrorist,business,the North korea nuclear weapons and some other international issues.
as to the embago, have u noticed that the UK and the Eurpoen have unfastened the military embago to china. have u smell something?

china will not lanch war to taiwan unless it announce independence publicly.

[Thin Spirits]

They will answer Chinese. Whether you are born America, Europe, South America, etc. you will still always be Chinese. Many ABCs and BBCs I meet in China, say they are Chinese, but born in a different country. This is because we all unite under one culture and the Chinese "mind". Glinert is right.

This is an interesting point, because most East Asians are ethnically Chinese, I would be curious to know if any ethnically-Chinese in, say Malaysia, or Singapore, have any considerable nationalistic ties with China.

[Andrew]

Since all the immigrants in the United States assimilate into American society, and due to their very nationalistic attitudes, I assume they would feel more American, than Chinese. If it was in Australia though, they would probably feel a mixture of both.

[Proctor]

Do not include ALL CAPS in thread titles. Do not prefix your title with "Attention!" or any other kind of disclaimer

Now that that's out of the way, I can say what I've said many times before. Were China to deploy nuclear weapons against Taiwan (or even invade them, with a serious chance of winning), the USA would deploy their own. It would be a disturbingly short, sharp, and pointless war, with huge portions of the world's population dead by the time the other nuclear powers were drawn in (as they inevitably would be).

As for the real question, when someone is born in a country, they inevitably think of themselves as citizens of that country before considering their racial background. They would be American.

china will not lanch war to taiwan unless it announce independence publicly.

Damn straight.

[Thin Spirits]

As for the real question, when someone is born in a country, they inevitably think of themselves as citizens of that country before considering their racial background. They would be American.

Some, however, are raised with the feeling that they belong to their ethnic groups as opposed to the enforced concept of nation-state. Also, many would still have family in their parents country of origin.
America is probably different as it is much more patriotic and nationalistic than, for example Australia or New Zealand.

Many immigrants, however, would have left for reasons, and the ethnically Chinese in many parts of South-East Asia are in the majority, quite wealthy, I and I would hesitantly suggest that some of them may have stronger economic ties than ethnic ones.

[Coney36]

As a Chinese living in the US, I consider myself Chinese-American and I'm actually the first generation to live here. I think the answer depends on what kind of mentality these people came with - as in were they brought up with a hostile mentality against the US for whatever reason. Otherwise, I think assimilation is inevitable after a few generations.

[Reichsführer Wilhelm]

Since all the immigrants in the United States assimilate into American society,

Since when does this happen? Many immigrants coming into the USA choose to retain their former culture and language, ie Hispanic immigrants.

[John Maynard Keynes]

They will answer Chinese. Whether you are born America, Europe, South America, etc. you will still always be Chinese. Many ABCs and BBCs I meet in China, say they are Chinese, but born in a different country. This is because we all unite under one culture and the Chinese "mind". Glinert is right.

This is an interesting point, because most East Asians are ethnically Chinese, I would be curious to know if any ethnically-Chinese in, say Malaysia, or Singapore, have any considerable nationalistic ties with China.

Most chinese singaporeans would see themselves as pure singaporeans. This is because singapore is formed by themselves and they regard singapore as their own. There are also many other races such as indians and malays in singapore and singaporean chinese generally see malay and indians as part of their own people. Therefore, they may not fully regard themselves as china chinese but singapore chinese.

[Proctor]

Many immigrants coming into the USA choose to retain their former culture and language, ie Hispanic immigrants.

No doubt! However, that is not to say that they don't first and formost think of themselves as Americans. For instance, I can think of myself as either Maori or Pakeha, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm a New Zealander.

Whether your ethnic group is important to you as Thin Spirits mentioned is secondary to the fact that you are surrounded by people who identify with the same nationality. I don't see how this wouldn't rub off onto the next generation, if not the first.

[Political Interest]

No doubt! However, that is not to say that they don't first and formost think of themselves as Americans. For instance, I can think of myself as either Maori or Pakeha, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm a New Zealander.

Proctor, I can never work this situation out. What I mean is that the Maori were the first to come to New Zealand, but then the Pakeha came and then came the treaty of Waitangi and the land wars etc. Yet, if New Zealand is a Nation with a Government created by the Maori and Pakeha, then how do Immigrants consider themselves New Zealanders if they want to hold on to their old culture?

I am not saying it is wrong to hold onto your old culture, I am just asking how we can define a New Zealander in the modern day.

[Reichsführer Wilhelm]

No doubt! However, that is not to say that they don't first and formost think of themselves as Americans.

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this is not true.

1) A constant stream of new Hispanic immigrants unwilling to learn english and assimilate into American society.
2) A large reconquista movement among Hispanic intellectuals and politicians, actively attempting to retake southern USA for mexico
3) [Purely anecdotal] There was a big argument recently in the US about flags during the 4th of July celebrations. Apparently, a lot of Hispanics were putting out the Mexican/Honduran/Whatever flag

[Proctor]

PI, a New Zealander is anyone who has New Zealand citizenship. If they only have permanent residency, it's their choice whether to identify themselves as New Zealanders or not.

The New Zealand Parliament was created by Pakeha. Maori seats were distributed, but they had no real part in its formation. This has absolutely no effect whatsoever on who 'controls' New Zealand, because anyone with New Zealand citizenship can stand for Parliament.

As for culture, as the present Government often says, we are a multicultural society. If immigrants (or non-immigrants) wish to keep their old habits and stuff, that's entirely their decision.

Wilhelm, I know that not all will think of themselves as Americans first. But I think that most would. The first two groups probably wouldn't. The third group do not necessarily lean either way.

Then again, Thin Spirits is probably right. America is different to Australia or New Zealand, so my assumptions probably don't hold as much weight as I thought.

[unbalanced zealot]

朋友!

(From experience ... a good word to know. Helpful as drinking
babble and also avoiding drunken fights)


BTW - re this thread subject - I always notice three trends expressed within any
discussion on this topic. First there tends to be this inference
that the CCP isn't quite as savvy in international matters
as the 'experts' ie the USA. Two - there's never any conjecture
about the actual disposition of the CCP Standing Committee
and its associated individuals [Li Peng for example].
And lastly - the massive economic and financial integration
that exists between Taiwan and PRC doesn't get explored too
much.