- 28 Nov 2013 07:24
#14334985
On Oct.22, 2013, Zhu Weiqun, director of the Committee for Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese Peoples' Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) talked in an interview to Federica Bianchi, the reporter of l'Espresso, an Italian newspaper in Rome, Italy and answered questions on the relationship between the Dalai clique and issues of self-immolations in Tibet as follows:
Reporter: Have any changes taken place in China's ethnic and religious policies since Mr. Xi became the Chinese president?
Zhu: Formed in the long-time practice of the revolution and construction of the Communist Party of China(CPC), and shaped by generations of China's leaders led by Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao and Xi Jinping respectively, China's religious and ethnic policies will continue as they are regardless of the change in leadership. Basic policies are consistent including ethnic equality, regional ethnic autonomy, support to boost socio-economic development of ethnic areas, protection of ethnic cultures, training of ethnic minority cadres and freedom of religious belief. The only change if any, would be the strengthened support to the ethnic minority areas for their socio-economic development and improvement of people's life.
Reporter: In terms of protection of human rights, I am afraid that China has achieved a success. If it were, it is only successful in controlling local people than in its ethnic and religious policies. I think in recent years, China has been, intensifying its control over Tibet and Xinjiang, causing situations there to deteriorate continuously. Why does China insist on these policies instead of loosening them even a bit?
Zhu：First of all, I should say that your judgment of what has happened in Tibet and Xinjiang is quite different from the real situation there. Like other provinces, Xinjiang and Tibet have been undergone a fast economic growth, with their main indicators of economic growth rate higher than the national average. What distinguishes the two areas from the other areas in China is that either of these areas has its separatists. Tibet has the Dalai clique, and Xinjiang has East Turkestan Islamic Movement.
If you say our control is stricter over the activities of the two separatist groups mentioned above, whose separatist activities have intensified, I would say yes. But if you say we "exercised control over our people of various ethnic groups there", that is totally not true. We do have taken some measures to fight against separatists, which shouldn’t be made a fuss because any country under these circumstances would do the same to safeguard its law and fundamental interests of its people.
For example, we took measures in a few places in the intersection area between provinces of Sichuan, Gansu and Qinghai to repress self-immolations instigated by the Dalai clique and to crack down on those scheming for more self-immolations. By now self-immolations have been suppressed, otherwise, people's well-being and safety cannot be guaranteed. So it is good if the separatists, especially those who instigated self-immolations feel suppressed. Some politicians and reporters mistake the Dalai clique for the representative of the Tibetans, and the East Turkestan Islamic Party for the Uyghurs, which is absolutely wrong. Since they hold this wrong view on this issue, they take the wrong and opposite stand of everything.
Reporter:In my view, a normal person in a normal country would not immolate himself. The reason why he burned himself is that he has discontent, unhappiness and anger at the bottom of his heart.
Zhu: During this trip to Europe, I've been waiting for someone to ask me this question, but you are the first one. I think probably the frequent self-immolations in a few places have already been put down completely, thus it has no meaning to raise such a question for those journalists.
Reporter: It is the first time I've the opportunity to raise such a question to a top Chinese leader.
Zhu: First, I need to say that the self-immolations did not happen just like the rumors the Dalai clique had spread: "the whole Tibet has been burning". In fact, incidents of self-immolations mainly happened in the junction of the three provinces I have mentioned above, especially concentrated in the Kirti Monastery located in the Aba Tibetan-Qiang Autonomous Prefecture of southwest China's Sichuan Province. The Kirti Rinpoche from the Kirti Monastery escaped with the Dalai Lama after their failed armed rebellion in 1959. He served successively as the Minster of Education and the Minister of Security in the exiled government. The Ministry of Security could not be a department in charge of chanting Buddhist scriptures, so actually it is a secret agency. According to the Voice of Tibet based in Norway and the other Dalai Lama's media reports, in March 5, 2013, the Kirti Rinpoche claimed in Switzerland that the self-immolated Tibetans in China had dedicated their lives to the well-being and interests of the Tibetan people. Therefore, the self-immolation is "nonviolent" and that the self-immolators' sacrifices "did not violate the Buddhist doctrines at all". The invisible power of Tibetans exactly comes from self-immolations. This is the real reason why self-immolations happened.
Owing to the oppositions by all the Chinese people including Tibetans, and condemnation by many international media about the scheming of the self-immolations, the Dalai clique cannot push forward self-immolation any longer. You have mentioned that self-immolation won't happen in a country in the normal state. In fact, you put the blame on our policies and work. If that was true, why self-immolation didn't happen in Tibet and other vast Tibetan-inhabited areas? Why did the self-immolations not continue any more? This is simply because self-immolations were plotted and instigated by the Dalai clique. It happened many times only in the places which are strongly influenced by the Dalai Lama.
Reporter: So all the bad deed is caused by the Dalai Lama?
Zhu: In some sense, you are right! I have every reason to prove that the Dalai Lama instigated the self-immolations. First, by his religious status and influence, the Dalai Lama attempts to put pressure on the Chinese government and forces it give in in politics by means of self-immolations with the ultimate goal of repeating another so-called "Arab Spring" Movement initiated by the self-immolation of a Tunisian vendor in Tibet.
Reporter: The Chinese government is indeed concerned about the "Arab Spring" and afraid that the same incident would happen in China.
Zhu: The Dalai Lama does hope that the "Arab Spring" could repeat itself in China, but we are not worried about it at all because there is no possibility for that to happen. On Nov.18, 2011, the Dalai Lama said when talking with the BBC, "the reason why Tibetans resort to a hopeless means to burn themselves is because they know the western countries support the 'Arab Spring', which was trigged by the self-immolation." In the meanwhile, he blamed the western countries for "speaking with China in a soft tone."
On Nov.10, 2012, the Huffington Post wrote that "Lobsang Sangay said self-immolation is a way of protest just like the self-immolation incident in Tunisia which ultimately triggered the Arab Spring. According to a report on The DuoWei News on Feb.4, 2013, Lobsang Sangay pointed out in an assembly that "since the self-immolation incident in Tunisia accelerated the Arab Spring, then why didn’t we win as much support as the people in the Arab world?" Obviously, he is dissatisfied with some Western forces for giving him less support.
Secondly, it is the Dalai Lama who takes advantage of his religious influence to offer spiritual support to Tibetans and finally tricked them into setting themselves on fire.
On Oct.8, 2012, the Dalai Lama told a reporter with National Broadcasting Company (NBC),"I'm pretty sure that the self-immolators sacrificed themselves with sincere motive. In Buddhism, it is positive since it is for the sake of Buddha dharma and the human being."
On Nov.7 of the same year, the so-called "Tibetan People's Parliament" of the government in-exile issued a statement that "the self-immolation is a peaceful and non-violent action in the highest realm." Besides, the "Tibet Religious Foundation of the Dalai Lama" described self-immolation as a lofty, altruistic and compassionate act, which could gain merits and virtues". However, it is strange that the victims were all young men or monks in their teens or twenties and not a single rich man or a senior lama who dares to burn himself to
Reporter: In every social change or so-called revolution, no rich man or anybody with higher social position chooses to kill or burn himself, so I don't think your example is strong enough to support your viewpoint. For example, the riot occured in Rome two days ago, the protestors were all young people living at the lowest level of the society. The rich will never take to the street to join them.
Zhu: It is true that the young people may carry out the violent and terrorist crimes directly. But the key problem lies in those behind the scene who deceived the young by saying that self-immolation is a Bodhisattva behavior. What if someone tells you that it is a lofty behavior to burn yourself for the sake of my religion, what kind of person do you think he or she is?
Reporter: I agree with you. The leaders will never sacrifice themselves in any revolution in history. They need to play the leadership role while those at the lowest level of the society will certainly play the role of the cannon fodder. Every revolution needs a leader to push it ahead.
Zhu: The Dalai Lama is such a "leader" who takes advantage of his religion to manipulate people's mind and cheat them. Can you find in this world any other religious leaders who encourage their followers to set themselves alight to fulfill their own political purposes and call it a religious practice?
Reporter: That is exactly what the Al Qaeda does!
Zhu: So the Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. But if you stand for the Al Qaeda, there is no need for further talk between us.
Reporter: I was wrong about the Al Qaeda example.
Zhu: Your words shocked me because I supposed you regard the Dalai Lama equivalent to the Al Qaeda. Historically, it was not rare to express religious belief by suicidal acts. But in the modern society, probably no religious organization takes self-immolation and suicide as symbols of purity and dignity. If there is, it must be the organization like the "Al Qaeda".
I would like to continue with the third reason why self-immolations are instigated by the Dalai clique. By far, the self-immolation issues in Tibetan-inhibited areas have generally been resolved. Many of those immolators arrested confessed that they were sent from Dharamsala to organize self-immolations.
Those suspects have been punished by law and the criminal cases have been published on China's media. A typical case is the notorious "Self-immolation Guidebook" published on the Internet by Lhamogya， a "congressman" who has served two terms for the Dalai clique headquartered in Dharamsala. The book detailed self-immolation in four steps, including mind control, preparations, shouting slogans and ways to deal with other activities. Many self-immolation acts were guided by this book.
Reporter: I want to mention the Lhasa riot happened in March, 2008. I think it was a riot across Tibet. Why were armed forces used? It shows that people's anger have gone to a certain extent, otherwise it was not necessary to resort to armed forces.
Zhu: Do you know what had happened in Lhasa on that day? Altogether 18 ordinary people were beaten and burned to death, several thousand were injured, among whom hundreds of them were badly wounded by separatists and terrorists within half a day. After that happened, why didn't we use arms? The armed forces are obliged to safeguard our homeland security, especially to deal with the violent and terrorist acts for "Tibet independence". If such incident happens again, we would take the same decisive measures again. I want to emphasize that a big majority of the people and cadres in the Tibet-inhabited areas support the central government, therefore, it was why we could quell the incident within such a short period of time.
Reporter: But still there are two phenomena which struck me given what you said is correct about the relationship between the Chinese central government and the Tibetan people. The first is the changing population. When the People's Republic of China was founded in 1949, the Han population constituted 65 percent, while the minority 35 percent of the whole Chinese population. But my data shows that now the Han population has risen to 96 percent, while the population of the ethnic minority fell down to only four percent. The above two figures can well reflect China's policies on ethnic minorities.
Second, I noticed that almost all the newly-built houses of ordinary herders were the same when I was once arranged to visit the Tibetan-inhibited areas at the invitation of the Chinese government, I wondered whether the Tibetan culture has been lost. And should this cultural loss be attributed to China's ethnic minority policies?
Zhu: What's the source of your figures?
Reporter: It just occurred to me. The figures came from a certain document of the Party School of the CPC as a successful example of national amalgamation.
Zhu: Your figures are completely wrong without any authoritative source. The fact is that the ethnic population has been nearly 10 percent of China's total since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. And there has never been such a figure as high as 35 percent. The latest census of China showed that the population of ethnic minorities is 110 million, taking up 8.49 percent of the whole population, not four percent as you just mentioned. As a reporter, you must find the correct source when referring to figures.
Reporter: In fact, China encourages the ethnic Han to move to the remote and border areas.
Zhu: According to the law of China, the Chinese citizens are not restricted to move freely within its territory. Late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping once said, Tibet is a vast area, and it is very difficult to develop Tibet only by the two million Tibetan compatriots themselves. There is no disadvantage for the Han people to go to help them for Tibet's development. I think it is applicable to the whole country.
The Chinese central government has organized and dispatched many technicians and workers to help with the development of the ethnic minorities-inhabited areas for a long time. It is very necessary for economically underdeveloped areas like Xinjiang and Tibet to accelerate their development, which has been open to the public with nothing to hide. After the reform and opening-up of China, the new situation is that the people's residence registration is not that important. Many inland people have been to Xinjiang and Tibet to do business and seek their opportunities, meanwhile, Xinjiang and Tibetan people have moved to the inland area for their own development. This is the normal exchange between each nationality and different regions. No one has the right to close our citizens within their own traditionally inhabited areas.
The fact is that the percentage of the Tibetan people in Tibet is over 90 percent, and the percentage of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang especially the Uyghur nationality is rising. The percentage of Uyghur nationality in southern Xinjiang is also more than 90 percent. This situation won't change much in a long time.
In my opinion, the blame is absurd that "building houses for farmers and herdsmen has destroyed their nomadic culture". It has been a progress for human beings to move from nomadic areas to agricultural settlement, and then to the modern industrial cities. If someone enjoys the modern life in the city but asks our Tibetan compatriots to live a nomadic life without tap water, electricity, schools and hospitals, it is a true violation of human rights.
Reporter: Living in the new houses, they cannot move freely and their livestocks cannot go to the grassland.
Zhu: Most areas of Tibet have entered the agricultural society. Our new housing project aims to help farmers rebuild their houses and change their bad living conditions with their livestocks, but their residence and surrounding environment has not changed. Two measures have been taken to help herdsmen in the Tibetan-inhabited areas of Sichuan Province. The first one is that over 1,490 herders' settlements with water and electricity have been set up for the herdsmen to live in winter. The second one is that each household has gotten a new tent equipped with nine facilities like solar power satellite TV, milk separator and foldable steel beds. The herdsmen can live in their settlements in winter and go out to herd animals with tents after winter.
Just now you talked about the cultural genocide. Tibetan culture is an important treasure of the Chinese culture. We value it so much that it is impossible for us to let it go extinct deliberately by taking some measures. The government has helped the farmers and herdsmen to build new houses and settlements, which hasn't changed their living style or culture, for the new houses and settlements have been built in their traditional residential zones. With so many houses being built in such a short period of time, it is hard to avoid the same design. It happened in other inland projects, so it is no surprise at all.
Reporter: Why it is so rushed to finish these projects?
Zhu: You have no idea of the harsh conditions of the traditional nomadic life. Farmers and herdsmen have been longing for the government to assist them to improve their living conditions. It is normal for them to have some dissatisfaction of the new houses. But all the people I have met are happy to live in their new houses.
Reporter: If a Tibetan person said that he didn't want to live here, can he choose not to live in the new settlement?
Zhu: I have never met such people, and I'm not sure if someone has expressed this wish to you. If none of our Tibetan compatriots has showed up the hatred towards the new house and modern life, why do you assume such thoughts on behalf of them? Why are you unwilling to see the truth that most Tibetan people welcome the new houses and new life?
Reporter: I mean that the Chinese people don't really have the right to vote under the existing political system in China, so I made such an explanation.
Zhu: The Chinese people do have voting rights. It is only because our ways of election and decision-making are different from yours. We fully respect the democratic way chosen by the Italians, and won't impose the Chinese democratic way upon you. But we also have no plan to deal with some affairs based on the western mode including the Italian. Our democratic way can make our people live a better life earlier, like helping Tibetan farmers and herdsmen live in better houses as quickly as possible. We can achieve fulfill that goal very soon.
Reporter: Have any changes taken place in China's ethnic and religious policies since Mr. Xi became the Chinese president?
Zhu: Formed in the long-time practice of the revolution and construction of the Communist Party of China(CPC), and shaped by generations of China's leaders led by Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, Hu Jintao and Xi Jinping respectively, China's religious and ethnic policies will continue as they are regardless of the change in leadership. Basic policies are consistent including ethnic equality, regional ethnic autonomy, support to boost socio-economic development of ethnic areas, protection of ethnic cultures, training of ethnic minority cadres and freedom of religious belief. The only change if any, would be the strengthened support to the ethnic minority areas for their socio-economic development and improvement of people's life.
Reporter: In terms of protection of human rights, I am afraid that China has achieved a success. If it were, it is only successful in controlling local people than in its ethnic and religious policies. I think in recent years, China has been, intensifying its control over Tibet and Xinjiang, causing situations there to deteriorate continuously. Why does China insist on these policies instead of loosening them even a bit?
Zhu：First of all, I should say that your judgment of what has happened in Tibet and Xinjiang is quite different from the real situation there. Like other provinces, Xinjiang and Tibet have been undergone a fast economic growth, with their main indicators of economic growth rate higher than the national average. What distinguishes the two areas from the other areas in China is that either of these areas has its separatists. Tibet has the Dalai clique, and Xinjiang has East Turkestan Islamic Movement.
If you say our control is stricter over the activities of the two separatist groups mentioned above, whose separatist activities have intensified, I would say yes. But if you say we "exercised control over our people of various ethnic groups there", that is totally not true. We do have taken some measures to fight against separatists, which shouldn’t be made a fuss because any country under these circumstances would do the same to safeguard its law and fundamental interests of its people.
For example, we took measures in a few places in the intersection area between provinces of Sichuan, Gansu and Qinghai to repress self-immolations instigated by the Dalai clique and to crack down on those scheming for more self-immolations. By now self-immolations have been suppressed, otherwise, people's well-being and safety cannot be guaranteed. So it is good if the separatists, especially those who instigated self-immolations feel suppressed. Some politicians and reporters mistake the Dalai clique for the representative of the Tibetans, and the East Turkestan Islamic Party for the Uyghurs, which is absolutely wrong. Since they hold this wrong view on this issue, they take the wrong and opposite stand of everything.
Reporter:In my view, a normal person in a normal country would not immolate himself. The reason why he burned himself is that he has discontent, unhappiness and anger at the bottom of his heart.
Zhu: During this trip to Europe, I've been waiting for someone to ask me this question, but you are the first one. I think probably the frequent self-immolations in a few places have already been put down completely, thus it has no meaning to raise such a question for those journalists.
Reporter: It is the first time I've the opportunity to raise such a question to a top Chinese leader.
Zhu: First, I need to say that the self-immolations did not happen just like the rumors the Dalai clique had spread: "the whole Tibet has been burning". In fact, incidents of self-immolations mainly happened in the junction of the three provinces I have mentioned above, especially concentrated in the Kirti Monastery located in the Aba Tibetan-Qiang Autonomous Prefecture of southwest China's Sichuan Province. The Kirti Rinpoche from the Kirti Monastery escaped with the Dalai Lama after their failed armed rebellion in 1959. He served successively as the Minster of Education and the Minister of Security in the exiled government. The Ministry of Security could not be a department in charge of chanting Buddhist scriptures, so actually it is a secret agency. According to the Voice of Tibet based in Norway and the other Dalai Lama's media reports, in March 5, 2013, the Kirti Rinpoche claimed in Switzerland that the self-immolated Tibetans in China had dedicated their lives to the well-being and interests of the Tibetan people. Therefore, the self-immolation is "nonviolent" and that the self-immolators' sacrifices "did not violate the Buddhist doctrines at all". The invisible power of Tibetans exactly comes from self-immolations. This is the real reason why self-immolations happened.
Owing to the oppositions by all the Chinese people including Tibetans, and condemnation by many international media about the scheming of the self-immolations, the Dalai clique cannot push forward self-immolation any longer. You have mentioned that self-immolation won't happen in a country in the normal state. In fact, you put the blame on our policies and work. If that was true, why self-immolation didn't happen in Tibet and other vast Tibetan-inhabited areas? Why did the self-immolations not continue any more? This is simply because self-immolations were plotted and instigated by the Dalai clique. It happened many times only in the places which are strongly influenced by the Dalai Lama.
Reporter: So all the bad deed is caused by the Dalai Lama?
Zhu: In some sense, you are right! I have every reason to prove that the Dalai Lama instigated the self-immolations. First, by his religious status and influence, the Dalai Lama attempts to put pressure on the Chinese government and forces it give in in politics by means of self-immolations with the ultimate goal of repeating another so-called "Arab Spring" Movement initiated by the self-immolation of a Tunisian vendor in Tibet.
Reporter: The Chinese government is indeed concerned about the "Arab Spring" and afraid that the same incident would happen in China.
Zhu: The Dalai Lama does hope that the "Arab Spring" could repeat itself in China, but we are not worried about it at all because there is no possibility for that to happen. On Nov.18, 2011, the Dalai Lama said when talking with the BBC, "the reason why Tibetans resort to a hopeless means to burn themselves is because they know the western countries support the 'Arab Spring', which was trigged by the self-immolation." In the meanwhile, he blamed the western countries for "speaking with China in a soft tone."
On Nov.10, 2012, the Huffington Post wrote that "Lobsang Sangay said self-immolation is a way of protest just like the self-immolation incident in Tunisia which ultimately triggered the Arab Spring. According to a report on The DuoWei News on Feb.4, 2013, Lobsang Sangay pointed out in an assembly that "since the self-immolation incident in Tunisia accelerated the Arab Spring, then why didn’t we win as much support as the people in the Arab world?" Obviously, he is dissatisfied with some Western forces for giving him less support.
Secondly, it is the Dalai Lama who takes advantage of his religious influence to offer spiritual support to Tibetans and finally tricked them into setting themselves on fire.
On Oct.8, 2012, the Dalai Lama told a reporter with National Broadcasting Company (NBC),"I'm pretty sure that the self-immolators sacrificed themselves with sincere motive. In Buddhism, it is positive since it is for the sake of Buddha dharma and the human being."
On Nov.7 of the same year, the so-called "Tibetan People's Parliament" of the government in-exile issued a statement that "the self-immolation is a peaceful and non-violent action in the highest realm." Besides, the "Tibet Religious Foundation of the Dalai Lama" described self-immolation as a lofty, altruistic and compassionate act, which could gain merits and virtues". However, it is strange that the victims were all young men or monks in their teens or twenties and not a single rich man or a senior lama who dares to burn himself to
Reporter: In every social change or so-called revolution, no rich man or anybody with higher social position chooses to kill or burn himself, so I don't think your example is strong enough to support your viewpoint. For example, the riot occured in Rome two days ago, the protestors were all young people living at the lowest level of the society. The rich will never take to the street to join them.
Zhu: It is true that the young people may carry out the violent and terrorist crimes directly. But the key problem lies in those behind the scene who deceived the young by saying that self-immolation is a Bodhisattva behavior. What if someone tells you that it is a lofty behavior to burn yourself for the sake of my religion, what kind of person do you think he or she is?
Reporter: I agree with you. The leaders will never sacrifice themselves in any revolution in history. They need to play the leadership role while those at the lowest level of the society will certainly play the role of the cannon fodder. Every revolution needs a leader to push it ahead.
Zhu: The Dalai Lama is such a "leader" who takes advantage of his religion to manipulate people's mind and cheat them. Can you find in this world any other religious leaders who encourage their followers to set themselves alight to fulfill their own political purposes and call it a religious practice?
Reporter: That is exactly what the Al Qaeda does!
Zhu: So the Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. But if you stand for the Al Qaeda, there is no need for further talk between us.
Reporter: I was wrong about the Al Qaeda example.
Zhu: Your words shocked me because I supposed you regard the Dalai Lama equivalent to the Al Qaeda. Historically, it was not rare to express religious belief by suicidal acts. But in the modern society, probably no religious organization takes self-immolation and suicide as symbols of purity and dignity. If there is, it must be the organization like the "Al Qaeda".
I would like to continue with the third reason why self-immolations are instigated by the Dalai clique. By far, the self-immolation issues in Tibetan-inhibited areas have generally been resolved. Many of those immolators arrested confessed that they were sent from Dharamsala to organize self-immolations.
Those suspects have been punished by law and the criminal cases have been published on China's media. A typical case is the notorious "Self-immolation Guidebook" published on the Internet by Lhamogya， a "congressman" who has served two terms for the Dalai clique headquartered in Dharamsala. The book detailed self-immolation in four steps, including mind control, preparations, shouting slogans and ways to deal with other activities. Many self-immolation acts were guided by this book.
Reporter: I want to mention the Lhasa riot happened in March, 2008. I think it was a riot across Tibet. Why were armed forces used? It shows that people's anger have gone to a certain extent, otherwise it was not necessary to resort to armed forces.
Zhu: Do you know what had happened in Lhasa on that day? Altogether 18 ordinary people were beaten and burned to death, several thousand were injured, among whom hundreds of them were badly wounded by separatists and terrorists within half a day. After that happened, why didn't we use arms? The armed forces are obliged to safeguard our homeland security, especially to deal with the violent and terrorist acts for "Tibet independence". If such incident happens again, we would take the same decisive measures again. I want to emphasize that a big majority of the people and cadres in the Tibet-inhabited areas support the central government, therefore, it was why we could quell the incident within such a short period of time.
Reporter: But still there are two phenomena which struck me given what you said is correct about the relationship between the Chinese central government and the Tibetan people. The first is the changing population. When the People's Republic of China was founded in 1949, the Han population constituted 65 percent, while the minority 35 percent of the whole Chinese population. But my data shows that now the Han population has risen to 96 percent, while the population of the ethnic minority fell down to only four percent. The above two figures can well reflect China's policies on ethnic minorities.
Second, I noticed that almost all the newly-built houses of ordinary herders were the same when I was once arranged to visit the Tibetan-inhibited areas at the invitation of the Chinese government, I wondered whether the Tibetan culture has been lost. And should this cultural loss be attributed to China's ethnic minority policies?
Zhu: What's the source of your figures?
Reporter: It just occurred to me. The figures came from a certain document of the Party School of the CPC as a successful example of national amalgamation.
Zhu: Your figures are completely wrong without any authoritative source. The fact is that the ethnic population has been nearly 10 percent of China's total since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. And there has never been such a figure as high as 35 percent. The latest census of China showed that the population of ethnic minorities is 110 million, taking up 8.49 percent of the whole population, not four percent as you just mentioned. As a reporter, you must find the correct source when referring to figures.
Reporter: In fact, China encourages the ethnic Han to move to the remote and border areas.
Zhu: According to the law of China, the Chinese citizens are not restricted to move freely within its territory. Late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping once said, Tibet is a vast area, and it is very difficult to develop Tibet only by the two million Tibetan compatriots themselves. There is no disadvantage for the Han people to go to help them for Tibet's development. I think it is applicable to the whole country.
The Chinese central government has organized and dispatched many technicians and workers to help with the development of the ethnic minorities-inhabited areas for a long time. It is very necessary for economically underdeveloped areas like Xinjiang and Tibet to accelerate their development, which has been open to the public with nothing to hide. After the reform and opening-up of China, the new situation is that the people's residence registration is not that important. Many inland people have been to Xinjiang and Tibet to do business and seek their opportunities, meanwhile, Xinjiang and Tibetan people have moved to the inland area for their own development. This is the normal exchange between each nationality and different regions. No one has the right to close our citizens within their own traditionally inhabited areas.
The fact is that the percentage of the Tibetan people in Tibet is over 90 percent, and the percentage of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang especially the Uyghur nationality is rising. The percentage of Uyghur nationality in southern Xinjiang is also more than 90 percent. This situation won't change much in a long time.
In my opinion, the blame is absurd that "building houses for farmers and herdsmen has destroyed their nomadic culture". It has been a progress for human beings to move from nomadic areas to agricultural settlement, and then to the modern industrial cities. If someone enjoys the modern life in the city but asks our Tibetan compatriots to live a nomadic life without tap water, electricity, schools and hospitals, it is a true violation of human rights.
Reporter: Living in the new houses, they cannot move freely and their livestocks cannot go to the grassland.
Zhu: Most areas of Tibet have entered the agricultural society. Our new housing project aims to help farmers rebuild their houses and change their bad living conditions with their livestocks, but their residence and surrounding environment has not changed. Two measures have been taken to help herdsmen in the Tibetan-inhabited areas of Sichuan Province. The first one is that over 1,490 herders' settlements with water and electricity have been set up for the herdsmen to live in winter. The second one is that each household has gotten a new tent equipped with nine facilities like solar power satellite TV, milk separator and foldable steel beds. The herdsmen can live in their settlements in winter and go out to herd animals with tents after winter.
Just now you talked about the cultural genocide. Tibetan culture is an important treasure of the Chinese culture. We value it so much that it is impossible for us to let it go extinct deliberately by taking some measures. The government has helped the farmers and herdsmen to build new houses and settlements, which hasn't changed their living style or culture, for the new houses and settlements have been built in their traditional residential zones. With so many houses being built in such a short period of time, it is hard to avoid the same design. It happened in other inland projects, so it is no surprise at all.
Reporter: Why it is so rushed to finish these projects?
Zhu: You have no idea of the harsh conditions of the traditional nomadic life. Farmers and herdsmen have been longing for the government to assist them to improve their living conditions. It is normal for them to have some dissatisfaction of the new houses. But all the people I have met are happy to live in their new houses.
Reporter: If a Tibetan person said that he didn't want to live here, can he choose not to live in the new settlement?
Zhu: I have never met such people, and I'm not sure if someone has expressed this wish to you. If none of our Tibetan compatriots has showed up the hatred towards the new house and modern life, why do you assume such thoughts on behalf of them? Why are you unwilling to see the truth that most Tibetan people welcome the new houses and new life?
Reporter: I mean that the Chinese people don't really have the right to vote under the existing political system in China, so I made such an explanation.
Zhu: The Chinese people do have voting rights. It is only because our ways of election and decision-making are different from yours. We fully respect the democratic way chosen by the Italians, and won't impose the Chinese democratic way upon you. But we also have no plan to deal with some affairs based on the western mode including the Italian. Our democratic way can make our people live a better life earlier, like helping Tibetan farmers and herdsmen live in better houses as quickly as possible. We can achieve fulfill that goal very soon.
- By JohnRawls
- By ingliz
- By Potemkin