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By Paradigm
#1835087
There are few words in economics more feared than unemployment. The irony is that many who fear unemployment also hate their jobs. What they really fear is not unemployment, but poverty. The fact that the two are so closely linked often leads to what I call "work fetishism," the valuing of jobs and work as an ends in themselves, rather than means to an end, namely prosperity. Consider, for example, those who decry labor-saving machinery. Such machinery can increase productivity and thus create more wealth. Yet it is feared by the workers, because it might cost them their job. It will, of course, increase the demand for mechanics and engineers to operate and maintain the machinery, but the unskilled laborers are out of luck.

But what if it was in everyone's interest to look after society's well-being instead of just their own? What if the two were one in the same? Suppose society itself were a publicly traded stock, in which each of us had an equal share, that paid dividends?

What if every citizen received a guaranteed income from the government? A guaranteed minimum income isn't as heterodox as it seems. A surprising number of mainstream economists support a negative income tax as a replacement for the current tax system. A negative income tax is a flat tax with a fixed rebate that makes the tax progressive in practice. The rebate acts a guaranteed minimum income.

But suppose this guaranteed income, rather than being a fixed amount, was instead a dividend of the total socially produced wealth. This social wealth, or rent, is found mostly in land values. It the value of living or doing business in a given location as a result of inter-subjective social relations. It is not produced by any one individual, but rather by the aggregate value of social and commercial activity. Thus, it rightly belongs to society as a whole. Land value taxation, therefore, would essentially be a society's investment in itself.

And why shouldn't that investment pay dividends, like so many stocks do? It would give us all an equal share in the overall well-being of our society. The amount of the dividend should be at least at the level of subsistence, but could be far greater. The consumption of both consumer and capital goods would increase the rent by approximately the amount spent, so the government would actually get back most if not all of the money spent on the dividend, and would not have to choose between dividend payments and social expenditures.

The worker whose job is threatened by labor-saving machinery would actually profit from that machinery, as technology tends to advance rents. So what if they get laid off? The dividend should be able to support them while they look for better opportunities, while the machinery that caused them to get laid off would also increase that same dividend. While being sustained by the dividend as they're out of the job, they can spend their time going to school and learning new marketable schools. Or perhaps this worker has an artistic side that they never get the chance to express. They could spend their time painting or writing that novel they always wanted to write, and not have to deal with the anxiety that comes with being a "starving artist." Their artistic work would also enrich society, and make us all better off.

But what if they decided to do nothing? This is what some people fear from a guaranteed minimum income. It's why many of those who do support it believe that it should be below the level of subsistence. In many ways, this coincides with attitudes towards welfare recipients under our current system. But the difference is that under a land value tax regiment, the guaranteed income would be a social dividend which is not earned by any individual but is rather the equal right of every citizen. The fact that economists talk about a natural level of unemployment indicates that there is a surplus of labor. Therefore, we don't need everyone working.

In fact, many people at the top of the economic ladder do not produce goods and services for society, but rather engage in idle speculation that is useless at best, and poisonous to society at worst. There are also those whose job is to lobby Congress to create laws that are preferential to their employer. In addition, a great deal of marketing dollars go towards creating demand where there would otherwise be none. We would likely be better off as a society paying such people to do nothing rather than their current jobs.

Some may worry about certain jobs not getting done. But this will simply mean that those jobs will have to offer higher pay to attract people to those jobs. They could also try to create better working conditions, which can be as much if not more of a motivator than higher pay. It would also increase the demand for labor-saving machinery, creating greater incentive for innovation. We could eventually do away with most if not all unskilled jobs, and we'd all be richer for it.

People would be all the more motivated to pursue an education, to innovate, and to explore their talents. They would have greater access to capital, and therefore could start their own business. Self-employment would become far more commonplace, and could eventually become the norm. Volunteerism would also likely increase, as people who didn't have to worry about earning a paycheck could instead devote their time to serving the community.

The idea is not to eliminate work, but to eliminate needless toil. In a more prosperous, technologically advanced society, free of the need for thankless wage labor, people would be able to find the kind of work that best matches their talent and ability, without having to worry about their livelihood. Such a society would foster not just employment, or growth, or capital formation, or any of those indicators with which economists are so concerned, but rather that greatest value of all: happiness.
User avatar
By josephdphillips
#1835914
I stopped after it mentioned a guaranteed minimum income.

Sorry, but no freaking way. Not in a million years. It was a stupid idea of George McGovern's in 1972 and it's even more stupid now.
User avatar
By Fasces
#1835924
Then you missed out on a good idea, that is not in anyway a minimum wage.
User avatar
By Dr House
#1835932
I support the idea of guaranteed minimum income for working people. I do not support giving any assistance whatsoever to those who don't work, unless they are not able to.
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By Paradigm
#1835934
Dr House wrote:I support the idea of guaranteed minimum income for working people. I do not support giving any assistance whatsoever to those who don't work, unless they are not able to.

Why do you value work as an end in itself? Furthermore, how do you propose to reward unpaid work, such as caregiving?
User avatar
By Fasces
#1835936
Well, the idea of a negative income tax pointed out by Paradigm as the basis for the minimum income relies on a person having an income to begin with - solving that issue.

Although, I do agree with his response - there are many forms of work, some of which looks at first glance as a lack of it.
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By Dr House
#1835957
Paradigm wrote:Why do you value work as an end in itself?

I don't. I value it as a means of creating wealth, and as the origin of capital formation, which means I don't take kindly to it being discouraged. Furthermore, fear of unemployment drives savings rates up, so quelling that fear is also a bad idea, and this is what GMI does unless it's below subsistence level.

Paradigm wrote:Furthermore, how do you propose to reward unpaid work, such as caregiving?

If there was a need to compensate such work, it would be compensated already, without the need to cut welfare checks for people.
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By Paradigm
#1835980
Dr House wrote:I don't. I value it as a means of creating wealth, and as the origin of capital formation, which means I don't take kindly to it being discouraged.

We can also create wealth through technological innovation which reduces the need for labor. If we can accomplish the same level of productivity with less labor, why shouldn't we do it? The answer under our current system is that it costs people jobs. But under my proposed system, all would benefit from such labor-saving innovations.

Furthermore, capital is currently a luxury of the well-off. Under my proposed system, capital would finally be available to the average person, thus raising the level of capital formation.

I get the feeling you didn't read the article.

Furthermore, fear of unemployment drives savings rates up, so quelling that fear is also a bad idea, and this is what GMI does unless it's below subsistence level.

Savings are only useful for capital formation, and as I said, capital would under this system become more available to the average person. Nonetheless, there are other ways to promote savings. Part of the dividend could go towards forced savings accounts, essentially replacing social security. Also, the dividend payments could be made once a year, thus forcing people to save for the rest of the year.

If there was a need to compensate such work, it would be compensated already, without the need to cut welfare checks for people.

Bullshit. Have you ever considered the opportunity costs of a mother working two minimum wage jobs as opposed to reading to her kids so they grow to be bright, productive citizens? Despite going unpaid and being valued at nothing by our implicitly patriarchal economic system, such nurturing activity does actually contribute monetarily to society in the form of social wealth, i.e. rent. Why should they not be compensated out of that same fund to which they contribute? Our economics habitually values as worthless that which is priceless, such as all the services nature provides for free, thus leading to a whole clusterfuck of perverse incentives. Speaking of which, I think I just got a new idea for my next blog.
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By josephdphillips
#1836046
Fasces wrote:Then you missed out on a good idea, that is not in anyway a minimum wage.

A guaranteed minimum income means people are given more than what the market would otherwise provide. I am against wages that aren't set by the market.

Dr House wrote:I support the idea of guaranteed minimum income for working people.

I don't.

Dr House wrote: I do not support giving any assistance whatsoever to those who don't work, unless they are not able to.

Who isn't able to work? Even Stephen Hawking has a job.

Paradigm wrote:Have you ever considered the opportunity costs of a mother working two minimum wage jobs as opposed to reading to her kids so they grow to be bright, productive citizens?

When I was a single, custodial parent of two preschool-aged children, I had two jobs and I read to my children -- or insisted the babysitters do that job. Your argument fails.

Paradigm wrote:But the difference is that under a land value tax regiment, the guaranteed income would be a social dividend which is not earned by any individual but is rather the equal right of every citizen.

Above is the principle weakness of the article. It laughably suggests that everyone is entitled to a job. That's not true, nor should it be true.

Furthermore the author would do away with property rights. Although I no longer own property, I champion the property rights of those who do. The United States Constitution would have to be changed to enable the kind of confiscatory taxation envisioned by this bonehead. He assumes everyone will act in what the author deems to be the public good, conveniently forgetting they naturally won't.
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By Paradigm
#1836054
josephdphillips wrote:When I was a single, custodial parent of two preschool-aged children, I had two jobs and I read to my children -- or insisted the babysitters do that job. Your argument fails.

Do you think every parent is able to accomplish this? Some people have exhausting jobs that make them unproductive at home. It's a simple fact that children who spend more quality time with their parents are better-adjusted and do better at school.

Above is the principle weakness of the article. It laughably suggests that everyone is entitled to a job. That's not true, nor should it be true.

Not at all. It suggests that everyone is entitled to an equal share in socially created wealth.

Furthermore the author would do away with property rights. Although I no longer own property, I champion the property rights of those who do. The United States Constitution would have to be changed to enable the kind of confiscatory taxation envisioned by this bonehead. He assumes everyone will act in what the author deems to be the public good, conveniently forgetting they naturally won't.

Your antiquated libertarian views are laughable. Property rights would not be abolished, but restored, as people would get the full product of their labor. Furthermore, the 16th amendment allows for direct taxation, so no Constitutional amendment is needed. Furthermore, this "confiscatory" tax regime would only confiscate unearned wealth, and thus would actually be less confiscatory than our current one. Also, I don't expect everyone to act in what would be in the public's interest, but such a system would reward such behavior more than our current system does. But since you've drank the Kool-Aid of royal libertarianism, I don't expect such concepts to register with you.
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By dilpill
#1836065
I'm just chiming in to say that I liked your blog entry very much Paradigm.
Who isn't able to work? Even Stephen Hawking has a job.

:lol: Just because a handicapped genius is able to work as a professor doesn't mean that anyone can. I'm sure that the market wage that handicapped people would be able to earn (if anything at all) wouldn't be able to cover their living expenses, not even close. Of course, that doesn't seem to bother you, that someone who can't work wouldn't be able to earn enough to live out of poverty.
User avatar
By Dr House
#1836214
Paradigm wrote:We can also create wealth through technological innovation which reduces the need for labor. If we can accomplish the same level of productivity with less labor, why shouldn't we do it?

We absolutely should, but incentives should be structured in such a way that higher productivity of capital turns into less working hours rather than less working people. Supporting does that do not produce at the expense of those who do is offensive.

Paradigm wrote:Furthermore, capital is currently a luxury of the well-off.

That's only because savings (which are the basis of capital itself) are treated as a luxury, rather than a necessity. For savings to be available to the middle class they need only to start living within their means.

Paradigm wrote:Under my proposed system, capital would finally be available to the average person, thus raising the level of capital formation.

I support giving the people direct ownership of the capital stock through investment subsidies, but welfare checks for everyone just don't cut it in my opinion.

Paradigm wrote:I get the feeling you didn't read the article.

I must admit I stopped reading at "guaranteed minimum income" to comment. My apologies, I just have a short attention span. :lol:

Paradigm wrote:Savings are only useful for capital formation, and as I said, capital would under this system become more available to the average person.

True, but maximizing capital formation is just as important as giving the people the fruits of capital productivity. A higher level of sunk capital per head increases labor productivity, which means it increases real wages.

Paradigm wrote:Bullshit. Have you ever considered the opportunity costs of a mother working two minimum wage jobs as opposed to reading to her kids so they grow to be bright, productive citizens?

I'm sorry, let me clarify myself. Childcare is valued at nothing, because it is human instinct to take care of our children in the first place, which means child care is its own reward. It is of course important to create the resources necessary for adequate child care, but this can be accomplished by increasing the value of productive labor, without draining other people's hard-earned money for it. And yes, you are gonna have to use other people's money, because the equilibrium cost of land ownership is about $2,000 per head.
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By Paradigm
#1836476
Dr House wrote:We absolutely should, but incentives should be structured in such a way that higher productivity of capital turns into less working hours rather than less working people.

The system I'm proposing would not mandate one over the other. Hopefully it would lead to both.

Supporting does that do not produce at the expense of those who do is offensive.

This would be valid if we were talking about earned income. But you should know enough about LVT to understand why this isn't the case.

That's only because savings (which are the basis of capital itself) are treated as a luxury, rather than a necessity. For savings to be available to the middle class they need only to start living within their means.

I'm not sure we're agreeing on what capital is. Henry George defined capital essentially as wealth that is used to produce more wealth. If this is the case, then I see no reason why capital would have to come from savings. It seems that any wealth can become capital depending on how you use it. As far as I can tell, the only difference between capital and consumer goods is the price tag. If people are getting dividends from social wealth, there should be more than enough capital to go around.

True, but maximizing capital formation is just as important as giving the people the fruits of capital productivity. A higher level of sunk capital per head increases labor productivity, which means it increases real wages.

As I said, part of the dividend could go towards forced savings accounts, if that's what you're worried about.

And yes, you are gonna have to use other people's money, because the equilibrium cost of land ownership is about $2,000 per head.

Is that including commercial and industrial land, where land values are highest? Does it include the corporate profits that masquerade as capital gains but are actually rent?

But let's suppose you're right. Suppose land values aren't enough to cover all government expenses. Fine. We can still just take the citizen's dividend out of land values, dramatically improve the lives of the majority of people, and use other taxes to fund the functions of government which still lack funds. The land value tax itself is supposed to increase the returns to labor, so it would solve plenty of other problems by itself. The citizen's dividend would be a bonus on top of that, to further improve people's quality of life.
By Average Voter
#1836517
How would businesses which do not use land be taxed? For instance, software developers have created programs just by taking their laptops to coffee shops with a wi-fi connection.
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By Paradigm
#1836711
AverageVoter wrote:How would businesses which do not use land be taxed? For instance, software developers have created programs just by taking their laptops to coffee shops with a wi-fi connection.

Productivity would not be taxed at all. If they can make as much money they want without expropriating land, more power to them. The land they might otherwise use could be put to better use. Hell, if most people telecommuted, it would be all the better for the environment, as well as congestion, so why penalize it?
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By Dr House
#1836776
Paradigm wrote:This would be valid if we were talking about earned income. But you should know enough about LVT to understand why this isn't the case.

Fair enough, but in either case rewarding the indolent is a bad idea. Everyone should earn at least part of their living expenses.

Paradigm wrote:I'm not sure we're agreeing on what capital is.

Then let's let the Wiki decide, shall we?

In classical economics, capital is one of three (or four, in some formulations) factors of production. The others are land, labour and (in some versions) organization, entrepreneurship, or management. Goods with the following features are capital:

  • It can be used in the production of other goods (this is what makes it a factor of production).
  • It was produced, in contrast to "land," which refers to naturally occurring resources such as geographical locations and minerals.
  • It is not used up immediately in the process of production unlike raw materials or intermediate goods. (The significant exception to this is depreciation allowance, which like intermediate goods, is treated as a business expense.)

Essentially capital is goods that are used in the production of other goods. In order to purchase capital goods we must forgo consumption, and since most people don't know how to put capital goods to productive use they won't be purchasing them directly. Therefore, to maximize the available stock of capital goods we need savings for producers to draw from (mostly through loans), so we need people to save.

Paradigm wrote:As I said, part of the dividend could go towards forced savings accounts, if that's what you're worried about.

That's part of it. Like I said, I don't oppose a guaranteed minimum income, but people should work for it. It's fundamentally unjust for able-bodied people to be freed from the responsibility of producing their own and their family's upkeep while others have to.

Paradigm wrote:Productivity would not be taxed at all. If they can make as much money they want without expropriating land, more power to them. The land they might otherwise use could be put to better use. Hell, if most people telecommuted, it would be all the better for the environment, as well as congestion, so why penalize it?

Not to mention telecommuting is awesome, and like Dave once said, wanting to tax awesome stuff is gay. ;)
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By Paradigm
#1836894
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think there are many valuable contributions people can make to society that they wouldn't necessarily get payed for under normal circumstances, and given the fact that many people out there get paid for doing things which are actively harmful to society, I don't have a problem with paying some people to do nothing. I doubt very many people would actually do nothing. More likely, they would find useful outlets for their talents and skills, whether it be art, science, business, or intellectual work. All such pursuits would still bring extra income on top of their dividend, so there would be no disincentive for such pursuits. I would hold up as an ideal the goal of liberating people from toil altogether. This blog post was meant as somewhat of a Georgist-Technocracy synthesis.
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By Dr House
#1836899
I would hold up as an ideal the goal of liberating people from toil altogether.

I absolutely do too, especially being the lazy son of a bitch that I am myself. :D

I just think that people should be equally liberated from toil. If society needs 1 hour of work a day from each individual it's unfair that one person should be forced to work 8 hours a day so that 8 people can be free from working.
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By josephdphillips
#1836902
Paradigm wrote:I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I think there are many valuable contributions people can make to society that they wouldn't necessarily get payed for under normal circumstances, and given the fact that many people out there get paid for doing things which are actively harmful to society, I don't have a problem with paying some people to do nothing. I doubt very many people would actually do nothing. More likely, they would find useful outlets for their talents and skills, whether it be art, science, business, or intellectual work. All such pursuits would still bring extra income on top of their dividend, so there would be no disincentive for such pursuits. I would hold up as an ideal the goal of liberating people from toil altogether. This blog post was meant as somewhat of a Georgist-Technocracy synthesis.

Your premise is that society is more important in every circumstance than the individual, a point of view I do not share. If what I'm doing is legal, society has no say in how I earn a living or how I spent my income. You would change that for no better reason than to please the indolent and unproductive. I have to oppose such a scheme on moral grounds.

Dr House wrote:I just think that people should be equally liberated from toil. If society needs 1 hour of work a day from each individual it's unfair that one person should be forced to work 8 hours a day so that 8 people can be free from working.

Precisely.

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