[RedLiberator]

Nobody can defend the capital punishment on the basis of economics. As Mr. CasX already stated, the costs of living for the prisoner is as draining on the state's fund as it does maintaining and executing death-inducing instruments (wow, nice euphemism for killing machines, eh? ).

In addition, if "fear is an efficient tool of management", why don't we just throw all our freedoms all away, and go live in a Fascist state? That is a terrible argument for anyone who even remotely supports human rights. Sorry, but I for one would rather not live in perpetual state of fear. And once again, numerous studies already show that the enforcement of death penalty does not reduce crime rates.

About the forced labour alternative, I'm pretty certain that prisoners in the U.S. are required to perform simple services for the state, like making licence plates and such. At first I thought that forced labour was also violation to human rights, but then again, a man should not be able to live without working ("He who shall not work shall not eat" ~Lenin), for then a beggar could just commit a crime and spend his time in prison again and again, as his incentive would be that prison is better than what he has on the outside.

[Proctor]

Well, I need to clear up my contradictary and confusing posts.

When I talked about the guys to be executed, 'awesome' was not the right word. I apologise. What I was trying to say was that I had great respect for such people, as it allows historians to do a little research and clear their name at a later date.

As for death penalty vs. forced labour, sorry what I was saying didn't make sense. What I was trying to say was simply that criminals should still have human rights. I will leave it there, and get on with my new ideas.

The idea of crime and punishment doesn't really serve anyone. The Ghandi quote illustrates this. So rehabilitation is a far better aproach, and better still is prevention, finding the causes of crime and eliminating them. Can't be achieved you say. You are right.

Some people are simply not safe to have on the streets. So unfortunately, there will probably always be a need for prisons. But the idea is that deterrants will be used rather than what we consider to be punishments.

[CasX]

"He who shall not work shall not eat" ~Lenin

That quotes' a bit out dated I reckon. The situation in Russia when Lenin came to power may have needed drastic measures like that, but today it should be a basic human right for anyone to have enough food to at least survive ok, whether they work or not.

In NZ the right wingers always spout stuff about 'tougher-sentences' being a deterent to crime. I reckon that's crap. What would be a deterent is being sure you would be caught rather than getting away with the crime.

[calgaryguy]

Though I do believe that the sort of criminals we are talking about here should die, I dont think killing them is the way. Just lat nature run its course, justice will come.

I propose

1st degree- Automatic life: no parole
2nd degree- Automatic Life: Parole after 75yrs
3rd degree- Jury decides, but min 50yrs
manslaughter- Jury decision, no minimum.

What sickens me is that in Canada you can pretty much get a free kill...

[Jesse]

I think for four crimes we should execute the offender: Murder, Rape, Assault causing irreversable harm and Treason.

For everything else, Society-Reimbursement Facilities, which is a neat little term I've coined for Forced Labour.

[keli]

I am presently against it.

[Man On The Moon]

I believe it to be a good deterrent, and i would like it re instated in britain with immediate effect, though thanks to our european gov. chums this wont be happeninalso, i must confess with great irritaition why the methods of execution should affect someones opinions.

for example polls have shown that the majority of persons believe lethal injection to be the most human form of death that is simply untrue, (except lethal gas, which arguably is the most pointless method of execution ever invented in a "civil" country.) Hanging when done preciesly is instantanous death, wheras it can take up to 45 mins to carry out lethal injection, not to mention complications involved with the IV lines and reactions to drugs, would britain still have a death penalty if "Barbaric" hanging had been replaced with something less crude?
I believe it might still have been around. I do not believe the method of execution should have any bearing on a persons stance on execution, the method should be irrelevent, contrary to the actual procedure.

[Deicidus]

We should be gratefull to live in a society where law and justice are two seperate things . Murder as been divided in 3 degrees, which is a little better. Let's just look at the death penalty to what it is and what it does to society. America is the best country to use because they're fucked up system don't work, if it was ever designed to. The death penalty dosen't stop people from killing each other. The law of nature says it's ok to kill when you want to survive. To protect your life or to keep living another day. But right now, why do people kill. Jealousy, ambition, revenge and even for little paper scraps. They kill for things that don't mean anything. Reprecussion never scared a normal ambitious human being.

It's the same with the DEA. If drug prohibition really works, why did I never had any problem finding weed in the states. The dealers don't even try to hide it anymore. I thaught it was to be zero tolerance policy. Heavy drugs is not the problem of society, it's the answer the people found to the real problems. Unemployement, poverty, racism, poor healthcare, poor education, wars... Instead of putting billions over billions on a system that don't work, they should focus on the real problems. Killing the prisoners only puts them out of their misery. Keeping them in jail is only a weight to society. If they get out, they're 100 times more dangerous than when they got in. A robber will come out a rapist or genocidal lunatic.

Crime will probably be always around, but I dont think jail time is the best way to make the prisoners pay their debt to society. Make them work hard and tough, with luck, they'll die out of weakness. Some people do deserve the death penalty. People that kill for pleasure, pedophiles, rapists, guys like Hitler, Pinochet, Bush or Alliarante. We need to face that not every human deserves to live. They gave up that right when they decided to think only for themselves and start feeding on the working class and hurting their families. I'm from a poor neigborhood, robbers and rapist hand around very often. I didnt chose to cross that line and think only for myself. I worked hard to have the little I need. If you can't help society, get out of the way.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

Like I've said before, the firing squad is the most beautiful and poetic form of execution. I mean, c'mon......

The rope that binds you to the indifferent post in that lonely courtyard, the option of a blindfold that determines every man's sheer balls, the last request of a cigarette or something, then:

Ready-

Aim-

FIRE!!!

OK OK so it's only like that in films, but it's a good way to go, eh?

Sorry. I've been up all night drinking coffee doing my maths coursework. I'm talking 4 heaped teaspoonfuls of coffee in a big cocoa mug, with the same amount of sugar. Several of these. Black.

It does......stuff......to......you......

But anyway, I'm for the death penalty, but it should only be used in extreme cases. Like multiple murderers and/or rapists.

[Jesse]

I'm not a coffee drinker, but I thought black meant without anything, cream or sugar. :/

[Krasniy Yastreb]

Nah, I think it's just without milk, or CREAM!!! (you flash little fart, you )

Had the coffee emoticon existed when I wrote that post, I'd have made full use of it, so allow me do do that now:



Well, it kinda made me paranoid after a couple of hours:



But anyway, capital punishment, carry on...

[Man On The Moon]

Something that im glad of is that the US has finally almost stopped execution by lethal Hydrogen Cyanide gas, (it is still a choosable method of execution for those condemned before 1992) but it has to be one of the most ridiculous and painful methods ever, taking up to thirty minutes to die, and being ridicolously expensive and complicated.

what do others think?

[The_Communist_Threat]

The killing of one for the murder of another makes no sense to me. And since innocent people have been executed, this system should not continue, anywhere. If one million guilty people are executed along with one innocent man, the the system has failed.

[Man On The Moon]

It must be said that though for the most henius and filthy crimes, for those sickening acts that challenge anyone to deny their heniousness, there must be an ultimate punishment, something more inmtimidating or final than having your freedom restricted.

[The_Communist_Threat]

Yes, but people that commit crimes like that will not care about dying, some actually might prefer to die....we should keep them and make them work...

[Man On The Moon]

I do not think this would work, if these people are so twisted, bitter, and insane to welcome death, why on earth would they labour? if they really have no fear of being eletrocuted or put to death by injection, they will simply refuse to work, and how would they be forced to? if the ultimate punishment is nothing to them what could you possibly threaten them with?

[Wilhelm]

Maybe just act against their wishes...

While interrogating them, make subtle questions, which will help psychologists determine whether they want to die or not.

If they want to die, prison and forced labour.

If they don't, plain old death penalty. But still it should be carried out when there is 100% proof of the crime.

[Man On The Moon]

which raises another question, what is a "humane" way to execute the condemned?

[Wilhelm]

Shot in the head. Electrocution and lethal injection are very cruel.

[Man On The Moon]

If done correctly Electrocution is one of the more human methods, lethal injection is psychologically degrading and prolonged, in my opinion Hanging when done correctly is the least painful, instantanous death follows, I do not believe that there is anyone who believes lethal gas to be anything more than a ridiculous joke.