[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

Poverty plays a role too here in the United States in that healthy food is more expensive. So, if you live in poverty and don't have an ectomorphic body type, you can only afford the less expensive unhealthy food, that works against you. That can play a role too in learning bad eating habits. And all this contributes to the obesity epidemic.

[Godstud]

Agreed, @Neo. If you have read in this thread, then you'll see that myself, and others, are for education and assistance to people who want to lose weight. I've been obese at one time and worked VERY hard to lose weight. My diet had to change PERMANENTLY to keep the weight off.

You can eat healthy without being rich. In fact, I could set you up with a cheap diet, where you'd lose weight, and it'd be cheaper than what you already pay for groceries. There is a fallacy that you need to be rich to eat well. You don't. You just need to eat whole food and not processed crap full of salts and sugars.

The government went a long way to creating this epidemic with the 4 food group lies, too.

There is a lot of good information available to people who want to lose weight. Weight loss is 100% diet, but should be combined with exercise to help you become healthy, stronger, and to help you feel good about yourself.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

Most of my weight loss has come about through hard core discipline and exercise like getting up at 3:30 in the morning to walk 3.6 miles on the weekdays and walking 5.3 miles on the weekends. You do feel better, but I have had to dedicate a serious amount of time to exercise. I hate the idea of dieting because it's like a bad word. It means you have to give up foods that taste good and that you enjoy and only eat foods that taste bad and you can't enjoy eating. It's like you have STARRRVE yourself to lose weight and be miserable. That really SUCKS! And you get to watch everybody else just eat what they want and never get fat and enjoy life while you, on the other hand, have to SUFFER.

[Godstud]

If you have the time to burn the calories, then exercise can be the way to go. That said, just not having that single beer is avoiding 30 solid minutes of jogging.

You can find good foods that you can enjoy, in moderation. Give yourself a cheat meal, now and then, where you have a pizza. You don't have to suffer, and you will suffer MORE if you are obese, and lose a great many years off your life expectancy.

I've yet to meet an obese person in their 60s, let alone their 70s. is it worth giving up that much life AND health just for some food? That and all the things you could do it you weren't obese?

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

That's a very good point you make Godstud.

[Godstud]

@Neo Lots of things can steal our time and will to do the things we need to do.

I've had stress in my life for a variety of reasons this year and have gained some weight I don't want and need to get back to weightlifting. I'm at 106 kg and I want to get down to 95 kg. I know I can do it, but it takes a strict diet and doing more than sit on my tush all day long.

I also want to get back to where I was, fitness-wise, a year ago. I'm 55, but I can do everything I did when I was 20. I want to get even stronger, and I want to kill the spare tire around the waist.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

If you lived close by, I would say lets go out walking together and go to the gym and lift some weights. Yeah, you know, when you have skinny friends like I do, and you put yourself on a diet, your skinny friends come up to you and they are like "So Neo! Lets go to the local wing cafe and eat some wings, drink beer and CHILL and have a blast!" And I am like "Well, I can't. I can't go with you to enjoy those wings and chill out because I am on a diet." And they are like "AHHH come on! It's no big deal. Just take a cheat day!" And I am like "Alright I'll go." Of course your friends are always wanting you to take a bunch of "cheat days." Then you get there and they like order tons of tasty and unhealthy food and ask why you aren't doing the same. All the hot chicks come up and talk to them and ignore you.

And you are like sitting there thinking "I wish I won the genetic lottery when I was born and can be like my friends and just eat what I want, not have to work out, stay skinny without any effort and have hot chicks come up and talk to me. And here I am having to bust my ass and work my ass off and they just CHILLING and not having to do anything and it all comes so easy for them." And when you tell them you are on a diet and trying to lose weight, they don't help much. They act like you are a party pooper. And then when you finally lose some weight, the hot chicks that never paid any attention to you, you catch them staring at you and it's like "Ohh! So NOW you want to pay me some attention, all because of my APPEARANCE!"

Of course, I am a married man now, but when I was younger, it was like this.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

Back in the day when I was in the Army and much younger, my Army buddies got me into weight lifting and I got pretty jacked. When I was in Bosnia, we had this beautiful Serbian woman who was our interpreter and my friends in my unit was like "Dude she has the hots for you man!" And she did, but I still had a lot to learn about women and develop confidence even though I was jacked at that time in my life. But I do miss those days of being in the army at times weight lifting with my friends. I had a few of the Slavic beauties in Bosnia make a pass at me and think part of it was because I was jacked at the time and the other part was because I was American and they just wanted to get out of the country. I never paid them any attention though. Bosnia at the time was all blown to pieces and destroyed when I was there.

[Godstud]

Yes, having a partner to help you keep motivated sure helps. I am thinking we live a little distance apart(I live in NE Thailand). Don't think age can stop you. There are some crazy examples of people starting weights in their old age and looking amazing.

I have the same thing, and I've quit drinking, as well. Too bad most of the foreigners around me are alcoholics(in denial). I went to the gym when they went to drink. It worked out well for me.

That said, I've done it before and I can do it again. Losing 10kg is easier than losing 22 kg, which I did 6 years ago. I want to keep the muscle mass so I have to start busting my ass with weights if I want to lose ONLY the fat.

That said, a year ago when I was probably at my peak fitness level, I was getting attention from women that I had never had previously, and I sure liked that.

Right now I am fighting a killer col, but the weather is turning cooler now, and a good quick walk 4mph+ for about 45 minutes should be a nice start to my day. I'll combine that with pushups and it's a good start before breakfast. I'll drag my 13 year old son along.

My son likes doing fitness stuff and he's doing 30+ pushups every day. He might be a skinny little kid now, but he can do more pushups than I could, at his age. I'm giving him good eating habits as well. He doesn't eat junk food and only drinks water and 2 glasses of milk every day. He probably only has a soda pop about once a week. I want to keep teaching him more. Education is half the battle. The other half is giving them good exercise and eating habits.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud

I sure do wish we could work out together, go to the gym and lift. Just like I used to do back in the day.

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud I'm making the point that by your own criteria for what is virtuous, it follows necessarily that becoming obese as a result of personal choice is a moral failing.

What's your response?

[Godstud]

@Agent Steel It's irrelevant to this discussion as obesity is not a determining factor in morality or ethics.

You are arguing about an argument that I did not make. Stop avoiding the questions I ask you, unless it's because it will expose you for what you are. Try a bit of honesty, and just admit you're the fatphobic one, which is why you are trying to link it to morality.

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud Your own words say otherwise. It's too late for you to run, hide, deny, and deliberately lie about your position. Just admit you're fatphobic.

[Godstud]

My position has always been clearly to motivate people to be better and take responsibility for their obesity and to change it. Being obese is a choice, taken one spoonful at a time, often over a long time. A poor one, but a choice that people can reverse thru diet and exercise.

A person's morality, ethics, politics, and values are as irrelevant as their sex, religion, or race.

Answer my questions, @Agent Steel, or are you simply too cowardly? Will it expose the real reasons for you trying to remove accountability from people who have it?

[AveMaria02]

I think it is definitely important to show kindness and compassion to all people, regardless of their size or weight. That said, we shouldn't condone gluttony.

[Godstud]

@AveMaria02 How dare you be fatphobic!

That said, any criticism of people is seen as "phobic".

There is no reason for some stupid "fat" civil rights anymore than there is for "fit" civil rights.

People are prejudiced against really fit people because they think they are stupid for being in the gym all the time, or narcissistic, for caring about their health and wanting to look good.

Rights for Gym Bros!!

Stop being Fitphobic, @Agent Steel!!

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud I am just curious though, why you wouldn't attach some moral value to this topic. I am changing the topic because I feel like it. But I just thought it was an interesting question.

Why should you celebrate your fat to fit success story given that if we infer from what you think about this topic, you did not do anything morally good? You say obesity is not a moral failing, but in that case, wouldn't it mean that losing weight and getting fit is no kind of moral success? But isn't it? Doesn't it require you to employ virtuous traits such as discipline, self-restraint, determination, perseverance, and willpower? These things all strike me as morally virtuous things.

Why do you say weight management has nothing to do with morality?

[Godstud]

@Agent Steel I do not attach morality to it. It's as simple as that. Get over yourself. You are simply trying to make me admit to something and have a "gotcha moment". Sorry. You made a Strawman fallacy, and I am not arguing it.

Self-improvement and deeds have always been celebrated.

Losing weight takes work, but that doesn't make you a better person. It just means you put work into your diet and health. That's called living. Everyone is expected to take care of their health.

Note: You need not be a glutton to gain weight. It often happens over a long time and people just don't see it themselves, since it is so gradual. There is a big difference between that and say Nicocado Avacado, who went from slim to obesity because of Youtube Mukbangs.

Why do YOU want to make it about morality? If you do so, then you are actually going against your entire argument in this thread, and identifying yourself as fatphobic.

How ironic!

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud You stated that you believe temperance is a virtue. Refraining from eating too much requires practicing temperance. Therefore, it follows logically that being fit and healthy is virtuous.

[Godstud]

@Godstud You stated that you believe temperance is a virtue. Refraining from eating too much requires practicing temperance. Therefore, it follows logically that being fit and healthy is virtuous.

Try harder. That is a false conclusion to make.

Being fit doesn't make you virtuous. Being fat doesn't make you less virtuous. Virtue isn't determined by a single thing.

Why are your trying to assert that being obese makes you a bad person? That's what fatphobic is, you know. You aren't as smart as you think you are.