[S. P. Laroche]

Who holds the moral high ground *now*?

You and I Bill, You and I. Besides, it's rather silly to destroy any part of the ecosystem for no reason, as it may have dire consequences.

[einstein]

i guess you are a rather left winged person then?

[Boondock Saint]

NO!

NO THIS WILL NOT TURN INTO A POLITICAL DEBATE!!!

NO!

THIS IS ABOUT DIET!

NO POLITICS!

NO!

As I understand it a vegan diet will need supplemenation of the B vitamin in all its forms as that particular vitamin is difficult to find in plant matter. A simple egg a week would suffice to supplement ones diet, though that means one is not a vegan ... as an egg is half a baby ... and eating half a baby can't be any better then eating an adult.

As for being nice in general to 'lesser' creatures or creature you have the power to kill .. it depends, I would not intentionally kill my fish ... as I enjoy them. I would not kill any of my cats ... as I am fond of them ... but a bug that lands on me to bite me will get a smack.

As for

it's rather silly to destroy any part of the ecosystem for no reason, as it may have dire consequences

I have never understood the way that humans seem to fall out of the ecosystem when people talk about it ...

Is it not natural for a human to swat a fly that bites it?

Would that not mean that it is natural for a certain number of flys or other instects of the ilk to be killed by humans?

Would not the dead carcass of the insect fall to the ground and become food for many other creatures and life forms.

Is not killing a fly doing a favor for the ants?

Is not delaying the death of a fly causing the starvation of countless ants?

Are you saying you hate ants?

[einstein]

i was saying politics because the left wingers tend to be more humane then us right wingers

[Demosthenes]

i was saying politics because the left wingers tend to be more humane then us right wingers

Ack! uh...I think you're missing Boony's point entirely.

I mean are we now trying to judge ourselves by whether or not we kill bugs? For god sakes how about the dust mites that live on your skin? When you scratch they DIE! Just because you can't see them doesn't mean there not dieing. Do we not scratch our arms now? And how the hell does it make me less humane than a liberal if I don't? That is patently absurd...

Say you don't torture small animals do ya einstein?

[S. P. Laroche]

I have never understood the way that humans seem to fall out of the ecosystem when people talk about it ...

Is it not natural for a human to swat a fly that bites it?

Would that not mean that it is natural for a certain number of flys or other instects of the ilk to be killed by humans?

Would not the dead carcass of the insect fall to the ground and become food for many other creatures and life forms.

Is not killing a fly doing a favor for the ants?

Is not delaying the death of a fly causing the starvation of countless ants?

Are you saying you hate ants?

I'm more refering to killing things for no specific reason, like sport hunters that don't even eat the meat, or people that shoot kill animals because they don't like there look. And I love ants. I even love giant dock rats that could take a man's leg off.

[Boondock Saint]

Oh sure ...

ANT HATE ANT HATER!!

YOU ANTI-ANTITE!

*Notices rolling black outs*

Hmmm ... maybe I should click submit ...

But a cat kills for sport ... all the time ... dogs kill for sport ... in the wild animals kill for sport and for territorial claims ... is that not natural?

Is it not natural for an animals to kill if it pleases them?

Is not man an animal?

Is it not natural for man to act with the same impulses as animals?

Are we to completly ignore out basic instincts?

If it is a basic instinct then is it not natural?

*Note, I am only debating the idea that man killing for sport is not natural, as I believe it is*

[einstein]

I mean are we now trying to judge ourselves by whether or not we kill bugs? For god sakes how about the dust mites that live on your skin? When you scratch they DIE! Just because you can't see them doesn't mean there not dieing. Do we not scratch our arms now? And how the hell does it make me less humane than a liberal if I don't? That is patently absurd...

Say you don't torture small animals do ya einstein?

more humane by the way we treat humans?

and no i don't torture animals

[MB.]

Anyway, back onto the diet issue (though I do agree with sport hunting being immoral); I pose a new question: *is* it possible to live on a diet soully composed of meat (diary products included)?

[S. P. Laroche]

Anyway, back onto the diet issue (though I do agree with sport hunting being immoral); I pose a new question: *is* it possible to live on a diet soully composed of meat (diary products included)?

Yes, quite possible, though your leaving a lot out of your diet, and you'll have a shit load of kidney stones if all you eat is red meat (specifically deer, elk, et cetera).

[Boondock Saint]

In respones to Mr. Bill.

For a time yes.

The problem is after an extended period of time on this diet (2 weeks, is that really all that extended?) the avg human will go through a process call ketosis ... a highly toxic and potentially fatal condition which if not reversed will lead to damaged organs and death.

There are other issues that will arise as well. One can look at the Inuits for examples. Their diet is very heavy on meat products, specifically fish. Generally speaking their bones are extrememly weak as they have a very poor source of calcium. This usally leads to advanced osteoporosis in their older generations. When I say advanced I mean worse then what is seen in the US population in general and when I say old I mean over 50 as opposed to later in the US population.

Now I forgot what I was talking about ... damn nephew and his badgering ...

[Demosthenes]

But a diet rich in Beef and by extension cow's milk wouldn't have the calcium problem. You would have to deal with scurvey, among other things.

[Boondock Saint]

BAH!

The idea that milk is the only place where one can get calcium is a marketing tool by the diary association. You want calcium? Eat broccoli and other dark greens. You really worried or hate dark greens? Take a supplement.

I disagree with the manner in which milk is manufactured (if you knew what they did to cows you would agree that manufactured is the proper word) not only for its treatment of the cows themselves but for the quality of the product that reaches the consumer. I speak of the dairy process here in the US, I have no idea about anywhere else in the world.

Scurvy? Thats easy, eat a fricken peice of citrus fruit or take a simple supplement.

[MB.]

Cows are treated *that* poorly in the 'production' of milk?

What about chickens (eggs)? So you don't drink milk Boon?

[Boondock Saint]

I do not drink milk because I am lactose intolerant.

But yes, in the US cows are normally milked to such length that their udders bleed and/or get infected with bacteria. They are hooked up to machines that suck the life giving fluid from them. I am sure it is not comfortable. The beast was not made for such a life, it is not proper.

Not that I am one to force others to do what I think is proper but I will not condone the actions of otehrs that I deam not proper and the treatment of cows by the dairy industry is not proper.

Not saying the little local farms do it ... but it is a well known fact. The major industries are a ruthless group ...

There is one man who ownes a lucartive beef farm, do you know what he feeds his cows? Droppings from the local chicken factory. That is not proper, but he does not care, he pumps them full of antibiotics and says 'what? I will not change it, they get much fatter on chicken waste and I make more money'.

To kill an animal for sport or food is one thing, this I can accept. To torture an animal when such torture is not neccessary is wrong.

[MB.]

Heh, that just reminded me of the hormone injectioned beef products sold in the US- like those yummy Macdonalds hamburgers.

THAT is a real issue. Seeing 8 yearold girls with breasts just ain't right, not to mention 400 pound 'wide load' fat assed yankees.

[Demosthenes]

BAH!

The idea that milk is the only place where one can get calcium is a marketing tool by the diary association. You want calcium? Eat broccoli and other dark greens. You really worried or hate dark greens? Take a supplement.

Hey waitaminute mr. off-topic the question that had been posed was whether you could survive on an all meat diet. I know you hate milk already, that's not the point. I was speaking of the problems you might have with an all meat diet Boony...sheesh! Don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Truth-a-naut]

I happen to be a lacto-ovo vegetarian, I don't 'love' animals; I just simply hate how they taste. Ethics and Morals don't mingle in my life!

[Boondock Saint]

Don't get your panties in a bunch.

I am not wearing any



Just wanted to go on a rampage there ... I got pink eye ... damn kids ... go easy on me ...

[Infection]

I have one friend who is a HARDCORE vegetarian. Whenever he buys a submarine sandwich, he only gets lettuce and onions! Gah!

Isnt there Anthropological proof, that humans evolved more, out of the different Human sub-species, because they ate more meat than the others, and they got more fat intake, increasing brain mass??? That is something that you can use to throw in someones face!

I dont really mind if someone is Vegetarian, just i hate it when they get preachy and try to convert us Carnovores! The last person that did that to me, was last year at my high school lunch table...I took a piece of ham out of my sandwich, and slapped him across the face! Good times, good times...