Euthanasia - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By GandalfTheGrey
#33056
ok this is an issue very close to my heart, unfortunately I only just noticed this thread.

Basically, I am against euthenasia. I believe in the principle of 'mercy killing', but could it really work in practice? Allow me to explain:

First of all, we need to understand what euthenasia is not. Euthenasia is not switching off a life support machine, nor is it witholding treatment to a patient who is well and trully past any hope of recovering, and is suffering.

CasX says:
As long as there are strict controls to make sure is is voluntary and carried out correctly. If someone is in incredible suffering, it's only a humane thing to allow.

But is it possible to have fool proof controls that ensures that it is trully voluntary and carried out correctly? I would argue that it is not. Once a euthenasia law is implemented, we create what I would call a "culture of death" - whereby the medical profession is no longer exclusively the domain of healing and rehabilitating. It is now also the domain of dying, and I think that is a very very dangerous precedent. People will no longer just go to the hospital to get better, they will also be going with the purpose of dying.

I believe this precedent could open a pandoras box of moral issues, where every patient potentially now has the option of dying. Of course, we wouldn't think that most patients would consider euthenasia unless it was absolutely necessary, but my point is, by making suicide legal, the option of dying becomes much less far fetched than it would previously. As I said, it would create a "culture of death". Would people still hold the sanctity of life that we (mostly) do now? I don't know, but its an issue that comes up. Patients suddenly have the option of comitting suicide, and it is all perfectly legal. It is easy to think of the dangers inherent with this scenario. Would patients feel pressured to commit suicide, given that they might be a burden on their family? I believe that in some cases yes. Remember, the option is now on the table, when previously it was not.

I think it is extremely dangerous when suicide is presented to patients as a viable solution to their suffering. How can we implement proper controls to ensure it is carried out correctly? Lets say, you have to be terminally ill. Is that difinitive? You can have the best doctors in the world judging that someone is terminally ill, but it doesn't deter the fact that it is still a judgement. There is no exact science to ensure that this judgement is correct. Is it unrealistic to assume that some people may commit suicide under the mistaken belief that they were terminally ill? Surely its possible. Lets also say that the patient has to be judged mentally fit by a panel of psychologists. Again, this can only be a judgement. What if the panel of 5 votes 4-1 that the patient is in control of his own decision? Is the one doctor overuled? Is his professional opinion discarded? Also, a patient may have control of their faculties, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the decision is a sincere one. The patient may have convinced themselves (for whatever reason, eg family burden) that it was the best decision and put on a show for the psychologists, but ultimately, it was not the right decision.

Finally, I just want to come back to my 'culture of death' argument. I can picture a hospital that has implemented the euthenasia law for 20-30 years, where the culture of death is firmly entrenched. Society is no longer shocked by patient's decisions to end their lives, and euthenasia has become something of a formality. Patients simply fill out a form and make an appointment with a panel of psychologists. After judging umpteen number of patients mentally fit so that they can kill themselves, the panel of psychologists are not as diligent about their testing procedures as they once were. In this hospital, an elderly patient is being visited by his family. His condition has worsened, but he has not given up hope. Then he thinks of his family and wonders what they would prefer. They are much younger than him, and shouldn't be burdened with his suffering. He doesn't want to die yet, but he tells himself that he doesn't have long to live anyway, and thinking more of his family than himself, he decides the euthenasia option would be best.
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By Adrien
#33073
Euthenasia is not switching off a life support machine, nor is it witholding treatment to a patient who is well and trully past any hope of recovering, and is suffering.


Then this act, whatever way you want to call it, needs to be addressed and quickly because it leaves a terrible juridical vaccuum. What is your opinion on this very aspect of euthanasia?

I agree that we must not institute a culture of death where people could choose to die when they learn that they have a brain tumor or that they wake up after a car accident realizing that they are in a wheelchair.
By GandalfTheGrey
#33076
Then this act, whatever way you want to call it, needs to be addressed and quickly because it leaves a terrible juridical vaccuum.


There is indeed a fuzzy boundary between letting nature take its course and euthenasia. Suffice it to say that doctors are not obliged to keep patients alive at all costs - for example they can withold pointless medication that only prolongs suffering. But this is different to actively interfering with the natural course of events, which is how I define euthenasia. Once a euthenasia law is passed I believe we will have an even greater juridical vacuum. How does one define the criteria for euthenasia? Who is eligible - anyone at all, or do you have to be terminally ill? And if so, who decides who is terminally ill? Does 'terminal' mean 6 months down the track, or 15 years? There are so many questions that are open to interpretation and which rely on judgements - judgements which could be erroneous.
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By naked_turk
#33231
ooh... voluntary mercy killings... I can't decide on this one.

But one thing I can decide on is what happened this week:

A middle aged woman suffered some sort of accident a few years back. She is now unable to talk. She is now fed through a feeding tube. Her husband, asked a court to have her removed from the feeding tube. The court agreed. This wednsday she is scheduled to be removed from the device. Her mother, insists that she communicates and responds, but only to a certain extent. She is against her daughter's husband's decision to have her starved to death. This is the worst kind of torture, seeing as the woman is clearly concious, albeit retarded. She will suffer for aproximately 2 weeks, finally dying of dehydration and starvation

I can't help but think what is going on in that woman's mind. Does she know she is going to die? If so, what does she think about it?
By GandalfTheGrey
#33289
Oh my god nake_turk, is this for real?? I couldn't believe it when I read this. This is horrifying. If this is trully how it happened, then this is not euthenasia, this is not mercy killing. This is murder plain and simple. WTF was the court thinking???!! Not only is she being murdered, but it will be a slow and turturous murder in the most inhumane manner. This defies belief.

Can you give me any more information about this? Where is this? What was the court's reasoning? What kind of sick fuck is this husband??
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By naked_turk
#33294
Sadly, gandalf, its real. I heard about it on CNN I believe (no, I don't watch it regularly :p )

Anyways heres an article from the NY Times about it.. I haven't read it but the title tells me its something you should look into:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/15/national/15CND-FEED.html?ex=1066881600&en=116a2cf042c58458&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
By smashthestate
#33300
No kidding. If the husband's motives were truly to put her out of her misery, then he would elect to end her life by less painful methods. Why couldn't they just overdose her on morphine? That's probably the most peaceful way to die.

You fall asleep, and then your breathing stops, and then your heart stops. It takes maybe 5 minutes. Instead, they have allowed her food to be cut off, which could take 5-10 days for her to die. She will experience starvation, which is very inhumane. I can't believe this!
By GandalfTheGrey
#33323
Thanks mr turk, it makes for some unbelievable and horrifying reading.

For once Jeb Bush is right.

All the courts, though, have sided with Mr. Schiavo, citing his testimony that Mrs. Schiavo once said she would never want to be kept alive artificially.


Can Mr Schiavo give testimony that she said she wanted to starve to death?? Have these people gone completely insane??!!

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